All the negativity...

There's so much posting here about how photographers don't make any money, it's so hard, so stressful, there's no respect, other people think they can do what we do, yadda yadda.

Seriously people, we are LUCKY. I don't make enough at it yet to fly solo, I'm not sure if I ever will or if I'll want to but really, people actually hand me checks for the pictures I take. End of complaining as far as I'm concerned. Plus, we get to call our own shots, promote our own business, be on our own adventure. It's a thrill and a privilege.

Just wanted to bring a little light/perspective into things.

x2

well put.

the thing that hurts is realizing what photographers used to get paid before the digital age...

Lots of professions made more money but now don't do to better technology, better efficiency, and better availability of information. It's progress and there is no sense in fighting it, time and energy is better spent finding a new or unique way to carve out your own little niche.

Interesting post - you obviously do not need the income from your photography and being blunt you are playing at it.

Don't take this personally but by playing at it (and I make a massive assumption here) and treating the income as "additional" rather than primary you are more likely to take a job for $50-$100 that a "full time professional" would be looking to charge $400+ for.

It is people who work like this that are undermining the profession and are propagating the idea that "anyone can take a good photograph".

The stress and difficulty that you so eloquently deride come at the end of the month when I have not billed enough hours to pay my mortgage and put food on the table because people keep undercutting me so that they can feel good about being paid to take pictures or make an extra $200 a month to go towards a nice holiday.

Don't take this as a personal attack because it isn't - your perspective is what it is and it is coloured by the fact that you don't have the pressures on you that others do.

i dunno...500k for an article to nat geo ? 1.5 million? I'd be down with that. I remember reading a poster on here had some documentry photos of the arctic (Majik something)

Made me cringe, I had heard that stock used to sell for 10x the price it does today and you could make a living off of one license a month.

There isn't a profession on Earth that hasn't been affected by changes in technology.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #8918941
There isn't a profession on Earth that hasn't been affected by changes in technology.

My current full time job is almost non existent. I work for a commercial printing company as a high end drum scanner operator. Well, I used to, now I do mostly color management for the whole plant. When I first started we had 3 shifts and 2 people on each shift scanning. First came the cheap flatbed scanners with decent quality, then digital cameras. I guess you just have to adapt to the changes or get out.

chrisa wrote in post #8919448
My current full time job is almost non existent. I work for a commercial printing company as a high end drum scanner operator. Well, I used to, now I do mostly color management for the whole plant. When I first started we had 3 shifts and 2 people on each shift scanning. First came the cheap flatbed scanners with decent quality, then digital cameras. I guess you just have to adapt to the changes or get out.

I am in the publishing industry as well... Hired as a graphic designer/Production designer. That transferred into project manager (without the pay or title) and excel tracker updater..fun exciting stuff....

Technology hurt me because now we outsource EVERYTHING to India... I know I wont have a job in 2 years...and I really dont care.

I can sympathise with pros who are trying to pay their bills, but at the end of the day, there is a reason that photography is an unregulated profession; it's art.

I might get flamed for this, but the reason there is a perception that anyone can buy a DSLR and become a 'pro' is because they can.

How many pros (particularly here on POTN) didn't start out as a hobbyist with a basic, 'off-the-shelf' kit, start doing some paid gigs, and taking things from there?

This may sound harsh, but if someone is going to pin their income on a profession that has such blurred boundaries with a hobby of the same name, they're going to have to accept that it's going to be tough.

I take my hat off to those who jump in, pursue their passion and do this for a job for better or for worse/richer or poorer. I appreciate pros sharing the challenges they face due, but like the OP I do tire of hearing how 'unfair' it all is.

I have to wonder if you're trying to address people who whine about these things or the people who are just straight out trying to inform people because they are living it every day, there is a difference.

Photography full time is NOT easy but everyone thinks it is, they think it's good and easy money because they don't think about the actual cost of business, they think there's no stress because when they take a photo there is none, and yes everyone who ever took a photo and mom/dad/friend said it was great does think they could be a pro. It's how it is and does not happen in too many other professions, some yes.

Personally, the whiners I can understand being annoyed by because you do what you have to do to adjust and survive in this industry (any business for that matter). In most cases you can whine about something or do something about it! However, any full timer who has not let out a b**ch here and there about this and that going on is probably lying.

However, for those trying to just inform and educate - maybe a little harsh at times - it's not a bad thing. For every person (because it's non-pros to) who puts the info about how hard it is in this industry on this and other boards there's 50 posts about how easy it is from people that are uneducated in the field and get offended when you point out anything they don't want to hear. Hell, even Yahoo and USA Today had articles about how easy it is to make money as a photographer leaving out very important info on the people they profiled. I'm the first to admit I'm very straight forward, screw the sugar coating, here's how it is - deal with it or you won't survive mentality (try playing for one of the teams I coach!!)

As someone who started out as a hobbyists with no ambition to do it as a career to now doing it full time going through each stage things are a lot easier when you're getting a check here and there instead of doing it full time. You'd be amazed at the difference to tell you the truth. Also, you don't always get to make the call when clients are involved, and it's not always an adventure. It's a fun job to have, but it's still a business and needs to be run like one. There's times you hate it but they are heavily outweighed by the times you love it in most cases - and if not, then it's not the career for you. There are thousands of people who fail every year trying to be photogs just because they loved it as a hobby and hate it as a job. So it is what it is...


Technology aspect - either embrace it or die is pretty much it unless you can pull off a fire sale, but I warn you Bruce Willis will stop you!

Karl Johnston wrote in post #8918849
the thing that hurts is realizing what photographers used to get paid before the digital age...

Karl, they still do, you just have to position yourself to be in demand.

Great post Mike,

From a personal perspective, your advice (and many other POTN'ers in this section) comes across as valuable, honest insight into an industry that has significant challenges.

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #8920459
However, any full timer who has not let out a b**ch here and there about this and that going on is probably lying

I don't think anyone begrudges those who have the odd b1tch, because anyone in any line of work can relate.

For me, it's the endless blogs and columns bemoaning the advent of the GWC (as if it's something new) that wears a little thin.

The '10 Things' article posted in the other thread is a great example. The author points out that photographers can work long hours like doctors, and don't get paid nearly as much.

Well duh! They're doctors!!

There was another one recently where a high school sports shooter watched his client base get slowly get eroded by PWC (parents with cameras) until his bookings went to zero. I mean, seriously. That should be in the Journal of Bad Business Sense...not a photography publication.

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #8920459
It's a fun job to have, but it's still a business and needs to be run like one. There's times you hate it but they are heavily outweighed by the times you love it in most cases - and if not, then it's not the career for you.

This is probably the best, and most succinct response anyone could offer to both the 'whingers' and those looking to get into the industry.

There are certainly parts of the photography business that have become unprofitable, but that's true in other areas as well. It forces the profession into a higher level of craft. It's not good enough just to be able to turn out a sharp, well-exposed photograph.

That's why gardeners have become landscapers and handymen have become interior renovators.

Nightstalker wrote in post #8918936
Interesting post - you obviously do not need the income from your photography and being blunt you are playing at it.

Don't take this personally but by playing at it (and I make a massive assumption here) and treating the income as "additional" rather than primary you are more likely to take a job for $50-$100 that a "full time professional" would be looking to charge $400+ for.

It is people who work like this that are undermining the profession and are propagating the idea that "anyone can take a good photograph".

The stress and difficulty that you so eloquently deride come at the end of the month when I have not billed enough hours to pay my mortgage and put food on the table because people keep undercutting me so that they can feel good about being paid to take pictures or make an extra $200 a month to go towards a nice holiday.

Don't take this as a personal attack because it isn't - your perspective is what it is and it is coloured by the fact that you don't have the pressures on you that others do.

whine whine whine.

This is exactly the negativity that cynthia is refering to.
If your find it hard going, maybe it's time to get a job and work for someone else for a change?

RDKirk wrote in post #8920607
There are certainly parts of the photography business that have become unprofitable, but that's true in other areas as well. It forces the profession into a higher level of craft. It's not good enough just to be able to turn out a sharp, well-exposed photograph.

That's why gardeners have become landscapers and handymen have become interior renovators.

Exactly, the world changes, society changes, techology changes. Bussiness have to change as well.