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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 04 Sep 2009 (Friday) 01:07
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Scott Kelby -The Truth About Lenses - Fixed- Length Prime Lenses Vs. Zooms

 
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shooter ­ mcgavin
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Nov 09, 2009 18:07 |  #406

you must have a better 28-135 than I did ;)




  
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bacchanal
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Nov 09, 2009 18:17 |  #407

GMCPhotographics wrote in post #8985835 (external link)
Actually bud, I have an A level in Digital Electronics, AS level in Analogue Electronics and I've always had a passion for Hi Fi. Hence the Ruark Crusaders, Arcam Amp and Quad CD67, Plus a sweetly set up Rega Planar II. I have a big stash of old 80's LP's...I'm sounding my age now! 80's music sounds so much better in analoge, it was mixed for it back then.

I always thought the fine art of stereo recording kind of peaked in the 70's...or at least plateaued. I'm jealous of you by the way...not that I'm really an audiophile, but I wouldn't mind a Rega P2.


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WhyFi
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Nov 09, 2009 18:19 |  #408

GMCPhotographics wrote in post #8985835 (external link)
Actually bud, I have an A level in Digital Electronics, AS level in Analogue Electronics and I've always had a passion for Hi Fi. Hence the Ruark Crusaders, Arcam Amp and Quad CD67, Plus a sweetly set up Rega Planar II. I have a big stash of old 80's LP's...I'm sounding my age now! 80's music sounds so much better in analoge, it was mixed for it back then.

No offense, but I'm fairly certain that I have a little higher audio standards than you. This is where I work for a living. (external link) If the bass of your analog chain isn't makin' you happy, there's something wrong.


Bill is my name - I'm the most wanted man on my island, except I'm not on my island, of course. More's the pity.

  
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MigsVuitton
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Nov 09, 2009 18:20 |  #409

I have to admit, that in my personal tests, primes have always had better optics. It could be a case of primes having a better success rate in production. Who knows, I'm not that technical.

Another reason I prefer Primes over Zooms is because it takes a step out of the equation of photography for me as a journalist (in my leisure time).

I don't think about focal length when I'm out with a prime so for me, I rely more on my artistic vision.

I have, however, been in search of a good zoom (which I think I found in the 24-70L) but this lens is for my back up camera at weddings and something I'll use when I travel.

I'll use it at weddings because I'll get two for one in a single camera (over possibly switching out lenses and missing some moments. Travel, because I won't know what I'll be encountering and rather not take a few primes with me.

But when it comes to a fashion shoot, planned photoshoot, or studio session, it's primes all the way for me because I'll already have a vision planned out. I'll have time to switch lens if I need to, move about my space to get the shot.

It's all a catch 22. And the best thing to do, in my opinion, is find yourself gear that suits your needs.

When I retire from doing this on the side (freelance), I see myself shooting only with primes. Because that's what I like and feel gets me the best image for my personal taste. But out in the field, where I'm making money for a client... he/she doesn't care what lens I used as long as I get the shot. And for me, getting the shot requires both excellent primes and zooms.

Balance is always good. Just my thoughts...


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GMCPhotographics
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Nov 09, 2009 18:40 |  #410

WhyFi wrote in post #8985976 (external link)
No offense, but I'm fairly certain that I have a little higher audio standards than you. This is where I work for a living. (external link) If the bass of your analog chain isn't makin' you happy, there's something wrong.

You have missed my point completely.....Probabl​y my rushed scriblings on my iphone are to blame.....
Sigh....ok...here we go.
The grooves on a record are attenuated, bass cut, due to the mechanical max amount of movement a stylus can make in a groove. With out this bass cut, the grooves would move too wide and take up too much space on the platter, there would be harsh distortion. On playback, this is re-adjusted at the amp stage. Which is why one has to match the pre-amp to the stylus construction. Sure, a nice bass is quite possible in an analogue rig, but it is certainly harder to get a good bass than good treble. I'm not talking about Bass volume here...but tone. I want to be able to hear if a bass is a rickenbacker or a Fender...Bartolini pickups or EMG. Flat wound strings or Round. Compact tape players did the same, but they had their attenuation in the device. Even radio does it too. Most of the analogue bandwidth is contained in the bass. The deeper and more forcefull it is, the more data is recorded. Much of the warmth that is often commented about on Records is often due to a slightly over boosted bass in the 120-250 hz region, due to a miss match in the attenuation and re-attenuation stages (say +/- 5%).
With a Digital recording, the reverse is true. Most of the data is contained in the higher frequencies and not in the lower frequencies.
I hope this clears my point?
Nice rig btw, is that a pink triangle btw? I did a stint at Sevenoaks Hi Fi for a while. I used to love the Pink Triangle TT's.
I play Bass guitar as a hobby, when ever i record with it I find that a Digital recorder picks up my tone easier than an analogue device. I have always assumed that the cheaper Digital recoders handle my lower frequencies far better than the cheaper Analogue units do.


Regards, Gareth Cooper GMCPhotographics
"If youre happy and honest and fulfilled in what you do, then youҒre having a successful life" (Ben Elton)
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timnosenzo
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Nov 09, 2009 18:47 |  #411

MigsVuitton wrote in post #8985980 (external link)
I have to admit, that in my personal tests, primes have always had better optics.

The funny thing is, it's not just you. You can compare high end primes to high end zooms, and in 99.9% of the cases, the prime will have better IQ. There really is no debating that, as there is abundant evidence to support the claim.

So really, the only debate is whether it matters to the user. Just like everything in life, there are compromises in selecting fixed lenses or zoom lenses. What the photographer needs to do is decide for themselves what is most important, and choose accordingly. The choice should have nothing to do with religion, Scott Kelby, photography forums, ego, etc., and should have everything to do with individual needs.


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MDJAK
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Nov 09, 2009 18:52 |  #412

funny thing is (and this may seem off topic but it's not) the original 5D can be had used on this sell forum for a song. People are even selling 5DII's, and it won't be long till the MKIV will be selling for a lot less than when new. History tells us such.

That said, I attended a seminar about a year or so ago and the photographer had a showing in the back of the room of shots he took and printed with the original 5D. These pictures were absolutely stunning, all 20x30 which is real big.

The Exif was there to be seen. Imagine, some were even taken with the lowly 24-105 zoom. Would they have been even better, sharper, clearer if taken with a prime? Perhaps, but doubtful anyone could tell if the Exif wasn't there.

Point is, whatever glass and body works for you, more power to you, and that's what Kelby, whom I've seen personally a few times, is trying to convey. I for one like him.

mark




  
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GMCPhotographics
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Nov 09, 2009 18:56 |  #413

So the truth about lenses - fixed primes vs Zooms....is what ever works....

Geee that's too simple...we need to **** about something...


Regards, Gareth Cooper GMCPhotographics
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WhyFi
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Nov 09, 2009 19:04 |  #414

GMCPhotographics wrote in post #8986092 (external link)
You have missed my point completely.....Probabl​y my rushed scriblings on my iphone are to blame.....
Sigh....ok...here we go.
The grooves on a record are attenuated, bass cut, due to the mechanical max amount of movement a stylus can make in a groove. With out this bass cut, the grooves would move too wide and take up too much space on the platter, there would be harsh distortion. On playback, this is re-adjusted at the amp stage. Which is why one has to match the pre-amp to the stylus construction. Sure, a nice bass is quite possible in an analogue rig, but it is certainly harder to get a good bass than good treble. I'm not talking about Bass volume here...but tone. I want to be able to hear if a bass is a rickenbacker or a Fender...Bartolini pickups or EMG. Flat wound strings or Round. Compact tape players did the same, but they had their attenuation in the device. Even radio does it too. Most of the analogue bandwidth is contained in the bass. The deeper and more forcefull it is, the more data is recorded. Much of the warmth that is often commented about on Records is often due to a slightly over boosted bass in the 120-250 hz region, due to a miss match in the attenuation and re-attenuation stages (say +/- 5%).
With a Digital recording, the reverse is true. Most of the data is contained in the higher frequencies and not in the lower frequencies.
I hope this clears my point?
Nice rig btw, is that a pink triangle btw? I did a stint at Sevenoaks Hi Fi for a while. I used to love the Pink Triangle TT's.
I play Bass guitar as a hobby, when ever i record with it I find that a Digital recorder picks up my tone easier than an analogue device. I have always assumed that the cheaper Digital recoders handle my lower frequencies far better than the cheaper Analogue units do.

I'm fully aware of equalization curves, RIAA, Decca, Columbia or otherwise, (incidentally, some of this mismatch in re-equalization that you mention is because people are incorrectly assuming an RIAA curve, just because it's the default today). All I'm saying is, if your bass is bad ("...but bass sucks. Hardly any definition or clarity" is your exact quote and what I was responding to), you're doing something wrong. That being said, yeah, analog is tricky - even if all of the parts are good quality, they have to jive together (effective mass of tonearm and compliance of your cart, for example) and they have to be set up properly... (I work in the super high-end of the industry, in one of the more densely populated areas of the western world, and I only know of a handful of artful people that can squeeze the most out of a 'table)

...but it can be done! And it's worth it!

Thanks - the 'table is a Roksan Xerxes with an SME arm and Benz Micro Glider cart - currently spinning Brubeck - Time Out :D


Bill is my name - I'm the most wanted man on my island, except I'm not on my island, of course. More's the pity.

  
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mattograph
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Nov 09, 2009 19:05 |  #415

WhyFi wrote in post #8985976 (external link)
No offense, but I'm fairly certain that I have a little higher audio standards than you. This is where I work for a living. (external link) If the bass of your analog chain isn't makin' you happy, there's something wrong.

I think I need to hire you as a consultant. Or convince my boss I need a room like that.


This space for rent.

  
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WhyFi
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Nov 09, 2009 19:11 |  #416

GMCPhotographics wrote in post #8986198 (external link)
So the truth about lenses - fixed primes vs Zooms....is what ever works....

Geee that's too simple...we need to **** about something...

It's as good a thing to **** about as any!

mattograph wrote in post #8986269 (external link)
I think I need to hire you as a consultant. Or convince my boss I need a room like that.

Either:

A) Have your boss send half a mil my way, we'll get you set up.

or B) Send a 'table or two my way - I'll listen to 'em for ya! ;)

Oh, wait - you wanted to listen to the system, not my opinion! :lol:

Can I ask who you design 'tables for?


Bill is my name - I'm the most wanted man on my island, except I'm not on my island, of course. More's the pity.

  
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Bear ­ Dale
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Nov 09, 2009 19:12 |  #417

MDJAK wrote in post #8986170 (external link)
funny thing is (and this may seem off topic but it's not) the original 5D can be had used on this sell forum for a song. People are even selling 5DII's, and it won't be long till the MKIV will be selling for a lot less than when new. History tells us such.

That said, I attended a seminar about a year or so ago and the photographer had a showing in the back of the room of shots he took and printed with the original 5D. These pictures were absolutely stunning, all 20x30 which is real big.

The Exif was there to be seen. Imagine, some were even taken with the lowly 24-105 zoom. Would they have been even better, sharper, clearer if taken with a prime? Perhaps, but doubtful anyone could tell if the Exif wasn't there.

Point is, whatever glass and body works for you, more power to you, and that's what Kelby, whom I've seen personally a few times, is trying to convey. I for one like him.

mark

As Scott says -

"I think there are but a handful of photographers who, with the naked eye, can tell whether you took a particular shot with a zoom lens or a prime lens."


Cheers,
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timnosenzo
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Nov 09, 2009 19:18 |  #418

ConDigital wrote in post #8986304 (external link)
As Scott says -

"I think there are but a handful of photographers who, with the naked eye, can tell whether you took a particular shot with a zoom lens or a prime lens."

So according to your gear list, it looks like you have plenty of expensive and not-so-expensive lenses. Can you tell the difference in IQ?


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bacchanal
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Nov 09, 2009 19:19 |  #419

ConDigital wrote in post #8986304 (external link)
As Scott says -

"I think there are but a handful of photographers who, with the naked eye, can tell whether you took a particular shot with a zoom lens or a prime lens."

Unless they are shot wide open.


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Fodowsky
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Nov 09, 2009 20:28 |  #420

WhyFi wrote in post #8986261 (external link)
...the 'table is a Roksan Xerxes with an SME arm and Benz Micro Glider cart - currently spinning Brubeck - Time Out :D

Very sweet setup!


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