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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 11 Dec 2009 (Friday) 01:13
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Upgrading to a SLR

 
crimsondr
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Dec 11, 2009 11:03 |  #16

itzcryptic wrote in post #9177036 (external link)
Or sometimes, it simply makes them possible. :)

Yeah, I just let my friends know this because if they are expecting to get great bokeh and it's too difficult or impossible to achieve then they may be disappointed with their purchase.




  
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Diamond ­ Dave
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Dec 11, 2009 11:45 |  #17

abjam77 wrote in post #9175406 (external link)
I plan to go check both of them out at bestbuy

You won't find the 30d at Best Buy...it's discontinued, so you're buying a used or refurb 30d unless you find a new one for sale on eBay or elsewhere.

And don't forget, with the 30d, you're getting a smaller LCD screen, fewer megapixels (for what that's worth), and an older processor (digic II vs. digic III).

This is really a question of what you need and not camera specs. The Xsi will produce superb images, but it's not as tough. If you need something rugged for where you shoot, go with an XXD; otherwise, you may find you get more bang for the buck with a rebel.




  
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watt100
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Dec 11, 2009 11:48 |  #18

Diamond Dave wrote in post #9177570 (external link)
This is really a question of what you need and not camera specs. The Xsi will produce superb images, but it's not as tough. If you need something rugged for where you shoot, go with an XXD; otherwise, you may find you get more bang for the buck with a rebel.

true, and consider this with those little "Rebels" image quality -

www.DPReview.com (external link) “The new 450D sensor is superb, and from a resolution point of view puts the EOS 40D to shame without losing any of the high ISO performance that has been Canon’s trump card for so long.” ...." in fact these are some of the most detailed results we’ve ever seen from a non-professional Canon DSLR thanks to what appears to be a slightly lighter anti alias filter (certainly compared to the 40D, for example).”
But the OP is considering the 30D ..




  
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HoosierJoe
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Dec 11, 2009 12:28 |  #19

Am I every going to buck the trend here.

With only $600 to spend and the needs you state, I am going to ax you to consider this:


10D - runs $175 to 225 used on this forum, fredmiranda.com, KEH.com, or Adorama.com.

Tamron 28-75f2.8 - Goes for $250 to 350 used on the same sites.

Canon 430EX flash - around $150 to 200 used.


Yeah, the 10D is old stuff but still takes excellent pictures.

The Tamron is a top notch lens, especially for portraits and has some macro capabilities. You could also get the Sigma 17-70 instead but it is not quite as good a lens.

The 430EX is also old technology but a great and versatile flash.



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Persephone
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Dec 11, 2009 12:41 |  #20

HoosierJoe wrote in post #9177831 (external link)
A10D - runs $175 to 225 used on this forum, fredmiranda.com, KEH.com, or Adorama.com.

I wouldn't get a 10D - doesn't support EF-S lenses. Yes you can modify the lens to make it fit on the 10D and yes you can use a Tamron or Sigma instead, but why? You can get a 20D for a little bit more money ($340 on KEH.com, probably cheaper elsewhere). It features a faster startup time, 9-point AF system, a JPEG produced during RAW+JPEG shooting, and 5 fps shooting.


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Dec 11, 2009 13:25 |  #21

I played with a a T1i the other night, and though it is a rebel, it feels much nicer than the XSI. It's high ISO capabilities are much more than any other Rebel as well.

Don't be afraid of used! Many photography treat their equipment well because they know it holds value longer that way. Get a 40d and stop thinking about it. It is a wonderful camera that is usually only bypassed by the rebel due to size restrictions. You have a G9, so the 40d...in the canon line...is for you.

Pentax, as well as Nikon make some nice cameras as well. If possible, go to a camera store and play with a few. Be careful of some biased sales people though!

Avoid kit lenses for the most part; look for the Tamron 17-50 (probably used). It is a much better deal and its a piece of glass I wish I started out with.




  
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abjam77
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Dec 11, 2009 20:56 |  #22

Thanks for all the replies!

heatherwb wrote in post #9176158 (external link)
If your $600 budget is just for the body only, then definitely go for the 40D. :)

Heather

600 will ideally be for both a starter lens or two and the body

StimpyJCat wrote in post #9176903 (external link)
Have you held both bodies? I agree that the XXD cameras feel better, but with my 450D gripped I'm very happy with its size, weight, and feel (I don't think I'd be happy without the grip though). The newer technology was worth more to me than the look and feel.

Is the XSI with grip heavier than the 30d without? Surely it is bigger...

watt100 wrote in post #9177588 (external link)
true, and consider this with those little "Rebels" image quality -

www.DPReview.com (external link) “The new 450D sensor is superb, and from a resolution point of view puts the EOS 40D to shame without losing any of the high ISO performance that has been Canon’s trump card for so long.” ...." in fact these are some of the most detailed results we’ve ever seen from a non-professional Canon DSLR thanks to what appears to be a slightly lighter anti alias filter (certainly compared to the 40D, for example).”
But the OP is considering the 30D ..

I had not read that but it does seem like a strong case to get the XSI. DXOMark has them at almost exactly the same, but with the 30d a bit stronger at high ISO. http://www.dxomark.com …and)/Canon/(bra​nd2)/Canon (external link)

HoosierJoe wrote in post #9177831 (external link)
Am I every going to buck the trend here.

With only $600 to spend and the needs you state, I am going to ax you to consider this:


10D - runs $175 to 225 used on this forum, fredmiranda.com, KEH.com, or Adorama.com.

Tamron 28-75f2.8 - Goes for $250 to 350 used on the same sites.

Canon 430EX flash - around $150 to 200 used.


Yeah, the 10D is old stuff but still takes excellent pictures.

The Tamron is a top notch lens, especially for portraits and has some macro capabilities. You could also get the Sigma 17-70 instead but it is not quite as good a lens.

The 430EX is also old technology but a great and versatile flash.

This is temping, but the lowest I would go would probably be a 20D. I know MP shouldn't be a deciding factor but 6mp seems like too little for me

How big of a deal is sensor dust? Is it possible to manually clean the sensor without sending it to Cannon?

I do want to avoid the kit 18-55 because I find it a little too short on the long end, but I have heard pretty good things about the image quality of the IS version.


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Persephone
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Dec 11, 2009 21:07 |  #23

abjam77 wrote in post #9180612 (external link)
How big of a deal is sensor dust? Is it possible to manually clean the sensor without sending it to Cannon?

I do want to avoid the kit 18-55 because I find it a little too short on the long end, but I have heard pretty good things about the image quality of the IS version.

The "Copperhill method" is the do-it-yourself wet cleaning method to cleaning sensors. Dry cleaning alternatives include using an Arctic Butterfly or a rocket blower.

Sigma has a 17-70mm f/2.8 and a newer 17-70mm f/2.8-4 OS HSM lens coming out.


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abjam77
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Dec 12, 2009 12:06 |  #24

between a Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5 non-os version and a Sigma 18-125 3.8-5.6 OS would the OS make up for the smaller aperture? I know the Sigma is only 2.8 at 17mm, so it seems like they might perform similarly...


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Canon 5D | Tamon 17-35 | Tamron 28-75 2.8 | Tamron 70-300 VC | Canon 50mm 1.8 | Canon 85mm 1.8 | Canon 430EXII

  
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Dec 12, 2009 20:06 |  #25

Persephone wrote in post #9177938 (external link)
I wouldn't get a 10D - doesn't support EF-S lenses. Yes you can modify the lens to make it fit on the 10D and yes you can use a Tamron or Sigma instead, but why? You can get a 20D for a little bit more money ($340 on KEH.com, probably cheaper elsewhere). It features a faster startup time, 9-point AF system, a JPEG produced during RAW+JPEG shooting, and 5 fps shooting.

Why use tamron and sigma instead of canon Ef-s? Budget. I just couldn't figure a way with $600 for the op to get a really good lens, camera and flash unit without going that route. And no, I am not in the camp of altering ef-s lenses.

Sure, 20D is a better product most people would say. But then comes the lens/flash unit dilemma. A really good canon ef or efs is going to cost. Unless you are talking the 18-55IS which is a good lens, but not great. And a better canon lens will eliminate the flash unit, which I count as essential.

Light control and glass are what makes the pictures. Any camera will take good pictures with proper lighting and glass.


And despite the knock on the 10D not taking ef-s, it is still a great product with arguably more natural color rendition that even my 50D. Hey, not my opinion, but a widely held one.



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c2thew
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Dec 12, 2009 20:08 |  #26

I would buy a flash first before you knock your g9 for a dslr. a flash will absolutely make your g9 usable again for low lit shots.


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HoosierJoe
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Dec 12, 2009 20:10 |  #27

abjam77 wrote in post #9180612 (external link)
Thanks for all the replies!

600 will ideally be for both a starter lens or two and the body

Is the XSI with grip heavier than the 30d without? Surely it is bigger...



I had not read that but it does seem like a strong case to get the XSI. DXOMark has them at almost exactly the same, but with the 30d a bit stronger at high ISO. http://www.dxomark.com …and)/Canon/(bra​nd2)/Canon (external link)

This is temping, but the lowest I would go would probably be a 20D. I know MP shouldn't be a deciding factor but 6mp seems like too little for me

How big of a deal is sensor dust? Is it possible to manually clean the sensor without sending it to Cannon?

I do want to avoid the kit 18-55 because I find it a little too short on the long end, but I have heard pretty good things about the image quality of the IS version.

Sure, that's reasonable.

I had the 18-55IS lens. Got it in a partial trade on another lens. I used it for a few weeks and sold it. It can produce some good results, no doubt about it. But sharpness wise it is not even in the league of some of the Tamron, Sigma, or more pricey Canon lenses.

Your budget limits your choices if you are spending over half of it on the camera body.

My suggestion was geared around the lens choice and the flash unit.


But, hey. You have to get what you think is best for you in the long run. You may have to settle for less in the way of lens until you have more money to work with.



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Persephone
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Dec 12, 2009 21:36 |  #28

HoosierJoe wrote in post #9185641 (external link)
Why use tamron and sigma instead of canon Ef-s? Budget. I just couldn't figure a way with $600 for the op to get a really good lens, camera and flash unit without going that route. And no, I am not in the camp of altering ef-s lenses.

Sure, 20D is a better product most people would say. But then comes the lens/flash unit dilemma. A really good canon ef or efs is going to cost. Unless you are talking the 18-55IS which is a good lens, but not great. And a better canon lens will eliminate the flash unit, which I count as essential.

Well, I was thinking in the future. I don't want to the OP to run up against a wall 2-3 years later if he/she has money then and wants to perhaps purchase an EF-S lens. i started out with an 18-55mm and thought that the 17-55mm was way out of my league, but eventually did buy it, because i needed the f/2.8, and was glad that i started with the 20D so I wouldn't have to modify a $1000 lens to make it work on a 10D.


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HoosierJoe
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Dec 12, 2009 23:14 |  #29

Persephone wrote in post #9186049 (external link)
Well, I was thinking in the future. I don't want to the OP to run up against a wall 2-3 years later if he/she has money then and wants to perhaps purchase an EF-S lens. i started out with an 18-55mm and thought that the 17-55mm was way out of my league, but eventually did buy it, because i needed the f/2.8, and was glad that i started with the 20D so I wouldn't have to modify a $1000 lens to make it work on a 10D.

Certainly a consideration, if you know you will be wanting ef-s lenses. I never considered some of those lenses for the OP because of the budget given. But in any case, the OP, like you is looking to possible future ef-s lenses. So 10D would definitely be out.

Personally, I find that I have no intention of buying L lenses in the future. I think they are not necessary for me. I'm an amateur and can't justify spending that much on a lens. If people want to, then more power to them. It keeps the economy going. I will probably get blasted for saying so, but I think they are over-rated.



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watt100
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Dec 13, 2009 04:16 |  #30

HoosierJoe wrote in post #9185660 (external link)
I had the 18-55IS lens. Got it in a partial trade on another lens. I used it for a few weeks and sold it. It can produce some good results, no doubt about it. But sharpness wise it is not even in the league of some of the Tamron, Sigma, or more pricey Canon lenses.

actually, if you look at sites like www.photozone.de (external link) the 18-55IS is much sharper than the leagues of Tamron, Sigma, etc. - check it out !

HoosierJoe wrote in post #9186482 (external link)
Personally, I find that I have no intention of buying L lenses in the future. I think they are not necessary for me. I'm an amateur and can't justify spending that much on a lens. If people want to, then more power to them. It keeps the economy going. I will probably get blasted for saying so, but I think they are over-rated.

What? "L" glass is overrated? Blasphemy !




  
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