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Thread started 07 Dec 2009 (Monday) 12:21
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Stands for 12x12 California Sunbounce Butterfly?

 
aroundlsu
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Dec 07, 2009 12:21 |  #1

Does anyone here use the 12'x12' California Sunbounce butterflies? I found a good deal on a used one but not sure if I'll need to spend another $900 on Matthews Hi-Hi rolling overhead stands or if I can get away with sandbagging my standard Matthews C-stands.

The film crews around here all use the Matthews Hi-Hi stands, but they are also using the heavier Matthews frames. The CS butterfly is only supposed to be four pounds.

For illustrative purposes, this is what I am talking about: :cool:

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symbolphoto
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Dec 07, 2009 12:23 |  #2

I have the 6x6 Sunbounce Pro, i could see using two C stands in the wind with it and being ok. But hell a 12x12, you need something more than two C stands for sure.




  
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aroundlsu
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Dec 07, 2009 12:58 |  #3

Yeah I am leaning towards just doing this the right way from the start and investing in the Hi Hi stands. Those suckers are 33lbs each and go up 21'.

My goal is to be able to schedule an editorial shoot anytime during the day instead of always requesting late afternoon shoots.


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Zansho
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Dec 07, 2009 13:29 |  #4

I've used them before, aroundlsu. They're quite nice! A little cumbersome so be ready to have an assistant with you to help you set up.

The Hi-Hi stands are good for those - I did use the Matthews C-stands for them, and to be honest, they were a little bit too weak for the Sunbounce, even with sandbags on the legs.


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symbolphoto
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Dec 07, 2009 13:41 |  #5

Zansho wrote in post #9151722 (external link)
The Hi-Hi stands are good for those - I did use the Matthews C-stands for them, and to be honest, they were a little bit too weak for the Sunbounce, even with sandbags on the legs.

That was my hunch as well... Take pics of the setup. I'd love to see what it looks like in the end.




  
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aroundlsu
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Dec 07, 2009 13:59 as a reply to  @ symbolphoto's post |  #6

Thanks guys. I should have it all together by mid next week and will take some pics and do a test run with a Model Mayhem TFP model.

$100 shipping for two of the Hi-Hi stands. :shock:

http://www.adorama.com​/MTH377574.html (external link)


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jdear
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Dec 07, 2009 19:40 as a reply to  @ aroundlsu's post |  #7

I'd try 2 c-stands. I have the Avenger's and I support my 6x8' sunswatter with one of it. I was looking at the 12x12' or 8x8' butterfly - 20kg for a stand each it heavy!




  
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aroundlsu
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Dec 17, 2009 10:52 as a reply to  @ jdear's post |  #8

Well one of the Hi Roller stands came in. The other is in backorder hell from Adorama. Let me tell you, the high roller is the Godzilla of light stands. Huge and heavy. My assistant is already asking for a raise. I don't think I'll need to worry about the contraption tipping over, especially after adding a few sandbags. It's not going anywhere.

I used a regular C-stand for the other support to test it in my living room. The weather has been nasty all week here so I haven't been able to take it outside. And without two beefy stands I probably wouldn't want to take it out, though even with one high roller and one regular c-stand, it's very stable and easy to maneuver - at least at seven feet and in my living room. Outside and 20 feet up it may be a different story.

12x12 is big, but it seems to be a comfortable size to shoot under without constantly moving the overhead around. Although I haven't tested this on a real shoot yet, I'd think that anything smaller and I'd be moving it around a lot.

An added benefit of going with the huge high roller is I can hang lights off of it without much trouble. Using a grip arm it was an easy matter to throw the Profoto D1 up over the top. Alternatively, I could use a Matthelini clamp (or any pipe clamp with a baby pin) to mount lights directly on the shaft of the stand.

As usual, my puppy is a willing TFP model for all brand new gear:

Edit: Before you ask, it took about 30 minutes to rig this up by myself but I spent about 15 minutes trying to get the frame square with the two different sized stands. With two identical stands it would have been much easier. And I spent another 10 minutes just cinching the fabric up. With an assistant and two identical stands outside with plenty of room I think I could have this up in under 10 minutes.

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IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/4193166208_026c42e84c.jpg
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IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2741/4193166502_9c7ea4898f.jpg
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IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/4193166646_93e04601ca.jpg
6 Yes, the wood block method is how you keep from bending the center shaft on the grip head.
IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2515/4192404499_793ec32af0.jpg
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IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/4192404571_e2c772a934.jpg

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bobbyz
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Dec 17, 2009 11:46 |  #9

Sweet setup. What do you shoot with something like this? Would like to see some pictures when you get a chance.


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aroundlsu
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Dec 17, 2009 12:02 as a reply to  @ bobbyz's post |  #10

A guy from Hollywood Rentals happened into the studio here after I posted these pictures (coincidentally). He said my gobo head setup with the wood block is most definitely not a good way to do it. He said their frames have an ear that goes in the head for a secure mount. So I'll look into some ears.

He's also loaning me another high roller stand until mine comes in. :)

Sweet setup. What do you shoot with something like this?

Any portraits outside in direct sunlight. You throw this up between the sun and your subject and you have instant soft light. Typically, I always try to schedule fashion/editorial/port​rait shoots at sunrise/sunset just so I will be able to work with soft light. Now I'll have more freedom in scheduling shoots throughout the day without worrying about where the sun is going to be.

That's the theory anyway. Once I get that other stand I am taking it out and see how it works in the real world.


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symbolphoto
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Dec 17, 2009 14:04 |  #11

That's very cool, i'd love to see some outdoor usage shots.




  
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jdear
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Dec 17, 2009 14:15 as a reply to  @ symbolphoto's post |  #12

Just a few questions:

1. doesnt the 12x12 kit come with 2 huge CA gripheads? My sunswatter Big had one, and its the perfect mate for mounting on a stand as it doesnt crush the tubing like smaller gripheads do.

2. Also whats the setup time like? Looks like you have to manually set and thread each eyelet around the edges

3. Does the eyelets / snake bungee cords show up big time in the shadow pattern cast on the ground?

12x12 is a nice size! I find myself moving my 6x8 sunswatter a bit and I wish I could anchor down 2 points like the butterfly system.




  
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aroundlsu
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Dec 17, 2009 15:42 |  #13

jdear wrote in post #9217253 (external link)
Just a few questions:

1. doesnt the 12x12 kit come with 2 huge CA gripheads? My sunswatter Big had one, and its the perfect mate for mounting on a stand as it doesnt crush the tubing like smaller gripheads do.

2. Also whats the setup time like? Looks like you have to manually set and thread each eyelet around the edges

3. Does the eyelets / snake bungee cords show up big time in the shadow pattern cast on the ground?

12x12 is a nice size! I find myself moving my 6x8 sunswatter a bit and I wish I could anchor down 2 points like the butterfly system.

1. Yes, it did come with two huge grip heads but I don't have any way to attach them to the high roller yet. I need a baby pin adapter to attach the grip heads to a high roller.

2. It only took me about ten minutes to bungee snake up the fabric by myself. The bungee snakes are very well designed and very fast. With two people doing it I could have it up in five minutes or less.

3. I haven't taken it outside yet. The weather has been very nasty every single day since I have had this thing. I imagine it would cast some kind of shadow but how bad it is in real world use remains to be seen. I do know they use very similar setups on just about every movie made around here and they don't see to have any problems with unwanted shadows.


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texshooter
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Dec 26, 2009 16:19 as a reply to  @ aroundlsu's post |  #14

Can you add follow up review? MY DIY butterfly is giving me hell, and I may have to take the plunge and get a professional one.

1. You mentioned that Matthews has a frame ear that works better than your wooden block method. I think this ear they speak of is welded onto their butterfly frame, so I think you'll have to use the CS grip head instead. Am I correct?

2. After giving your butterfly a test drive, would you say that your C-stands could adequately handle the CS butterfly set? Or do you think the 43lb Matthews Hi Roller was necessary? Or how about something stronger than a standard C stand but lighter than the 20' Hi Roller?

3. Do you find 12'x12' too big or not big enough for covering your group portaits? In other words, do the shadows from the frames cause more problems than they solve? And is there enough shade coverage for your needs.

4. Do you really need stands with wheels?

5. Does the Sunbounce frame bend and bow in the wind or is it sturdy?

6. Is assemblying and disassembling your butterfly worth the hassle to you? I swear my butterfly takes the fun out of it.




  
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aroundlsu
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Dec 26, 2009 17:01 |  #15

I did one shoot with it and posted the review there. I don't have a link handy but it was just last weekend.

Yes the high roller stand is necessary. We had light wind and the c stand was tipping but the high roller held strong. There are some in between stands but there isn't much of a price difference after shipping so might as well get the big one.

The wheels were very handy. We just rolled it around in position on location.

12x12 was big enough.

It took 30 minutes to set up first time on location but we had a little trouble figuring out which pipes go where. I think we can set it up in 15 minutes if I number the pipes in order with tape.


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Stands for 12x12 California Sunbounce Butterfly?
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