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Thread started 21 Dec 2009 (Monday) 14:27
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Best lens for craptastic low lighting?

 
ceegee
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Dec 22, 2009 09:59 |  #46

Kpablo wrote in post #9244536 (external link)
First and foremost, I'm not necessarily doing this for money. This is my hobby, this is what gives me joy.

I can relate to this. When I'm competing at an agility trial, I always take my camera along, and between my own events I take pics of other competitors. Sometimes I offer to sell them, mostly I don't. But it's fun either way. In my own case I've temporarily given up on photographing indoor agility. None of the professionals in our area will come to an indoor trial, and I understand why. It's really, really hard to get saleable shots without some kind of additional lighting, and there just isn't enough money to be made off agility people to warrant the investment in time and equipment, at least around here.

If I were you, I'd rent a fast lens and try out your venue. From the video, it doesn't look too bad - much better than anything we compete in around here. You may have to process out the colour cast from the fluorescent lighting, but it might be worth the effort.

Looking at your outdoor samples, if I can make a suggestion it would be to concentrate more on the close-up shots like the one of the white dog, and on those that include the handler as well (e.g. the one on the dog walk, with the handler alongside). Most of the others wouldn't be saleable. Some of them also look a bit under-exposed and out of focus. You might want to try bringing the exposure up a bit. Also, when photographing black dogs, you might try purposely over-exposing the shot to bring out the detail of the dog (using exposure compensation). This will blow out the background a bit, but at least you're going to be able to see your subject properly.

Have fun and good luck!


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Kpablo
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Dec 22, 2009 10:05 |  #47

ceegee wrote in post #9244674 (external link)
I can relate to this. When I'm competing at an agility trial, I always take my camera along, and between my own events I take pics of other competitors. Sometimes I offer to sell them, mostly I don't. But it's fun either way. In my own case I've temporarily given up on photographing indoor agility. None of the professionals in our area will come to an indoor trial, and I understand why. It's really, really hard to get saleable shots without some kind of additional lighting, and there just isn't enough money to be made off agility people to warrant the investment in time and equipment, at least around here.

If I were you, I'd rent a fast lens and try out your venue. From the video, it doesn't look too bad - much better than anything we compete in around here. You may have to process out the colour cast from the fluorescent lighting, but it might be worth the effort.

Looking at your outdoor samples, if I can make a suggestion it would be to concentrate more on the close-up shots like the one of the white dog, and on those that include the handler as well (e.g. the one on the dog walk, with the handler alongside). Most of the others wouldn't be saleable. Some of them also look a bit under-exposed and out of focus. You might want to try bringing the exposure up a bit. Also, when photographing black dogs, you might try purposely over-exposing the shot to bring out the detail of the dog (using exposure compensation). This will blow out the background a bit, but at least you're going to be able to see your subject properly.

Have fun and good luck!

Thanks for you thought. I actually didn't do much editing on any of the pictures. I hadn't thought of getting close up, next time I'll keep that in mind. I just figured it would be nice to the dog on the equipment, I definantly see your idea though.

Black dogs are hard to shoot, I'll do your suggestions next time.


Katie
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EmmaRose
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Dec 22, 2009 10:10 |  #48

70-200 2.8 on a crop should do it?


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AdamJT
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Dec 22, 2009 10:15 |  #49

I have rented several times from lensrentals.com and can say that their service and prices are excellent. I agree with others that this is the way to decide what you need. I have shot many indoor sports professionally and can tell you from experience that you will need at least a 70-200 f2.8 to make a reasonable go at this. This will likely leave you at 1/320 - 1/500 at f2.8 and ISO 3200. Judging by the speed that a lot of dogs can move you will need to be in the 1/500 area to get a good frozen shot. Honestly, you are better off with a faster prime that will give you f2.0 or faster and then just choosing the shots you can get with that set-up.

While I think you can get started with the T1i I also agree with many of the other posters that you will find the focus and frame rate a little slow eventually. Given that you just got the camera, I don't want to discourage you on your new purchase, but I can say that even the 40D for shooting indoor sports is marginal in that lighting and the speed of action.

Regardless go with the rental first. Then you can decide what works and what doesn't. FYI, I am a fan of the 85 1.8 or 135 f2 also. But start with the 70-200 f2.8 and see where that gets you.

Good Luck!


Adam:D

5D | 7D | Reb XT | Canon 17-40 4.0L | Canon 24-70 2.8L | Canon 70-200 2.8L IS USM | Canon 35 1.4L | Canon 85 1.8 | Sigma 18-125 3.5-5.6 | 3x 580EX | Photogenic Monolights and Accessories | Various Other Toys...

  
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jetcode
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Dec 22, 2009 10:21 |  #50
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A high ISO camera will help. The 300 2.8 is a tank compared to what you are using.




  
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km4066
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Dec 22, 2009 14:06 |  #51

Kpablo wrote in post #9239916 (external link)
Many of the agility people really want me to start photographing their dogs in the ring, problem is I haven't photographed indoors, only outdoors.

Hi, I just couldn't pass the word 'agility'. First of all, I'd like to know how the people found out your photography..?

I would definitely suggest 85 1.8 or 135L, 2.8 is hardly enough, since the lighting is very poor (at least here). Of course if you only want to include the dogs' whiskers, then get a 400 2.8 :)

I've been doing that for a while, see http://koirakuvat.kuva​t.fi (external link) . It's in Finnish only, so head straight to (subjective) top10 for this year at http://koirakuvat.kuva​t.fi/kuvat/2009top10/ (external link) .

Whatever you decide, remember not to distract dogs on the track :)

-Jukka


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charliec
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Dec 22, 2009 14:55 |  #52

Jukka - great DIF (dogs in flight) shots on there.


  
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plasticmotif
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Dec 22, 2009 15:09 |  #53

charliec wrote in post #9246456 (external link)
Jukka - great DIF (dogs in flight) shots on there.

That dalmatian shot is particularly good.


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Gabe63
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Dec 22, 2009 15:25 |  #54

Kpablo wrote in post #9244571 (external link)
I'm not selling the T1i, i just got it last Thursday.

You have to wonder why everyone is telling you to get a 40/50/7d camera? Can't you return the T1i and get a used 40D for $600 if you just got it Thursday?

My thoughts are 40D and 70-200 2.8IS.

Would the events even let you use strobes?


:D 16-35IIL, 50L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 200L F2.

  
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Kpablo
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Dec 22, 2009 15:28 |  #55

Gabe63 wrote in post #9246642 (external link)
You have to wonder why everyone is telling you to get a 40/50/7d camera? Can't you return the T1i and get a used 40D for $600 if you just got it Thursday?

My thoughts are 40D and 70-200 2.8IS.

Would the events even let you use strobes?

This forum is just a small piece of where I can get advice. I am a member of a very large local photography club, and not everyone thinks that the 40D is more suitable than the T1i.

ETA: This thread was not focused on bodies, but instead lens.


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JeffreyG
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Dec 22, 2009 15:47 |  #56

My experience with the various Rebels matches this summary from 'The Digital Picture" which is one of the best Canon hardware review sites.

Aside from having a relatively long shutter lag (which is very fast compared to most point and shoot models), the T1i's XSi-like 9-point wide-area AF system is not Canon's best sports/action AF system.

My results from a youth soccer match shot with the T1i were not encouraging. A very high percent of the images of players running toward the camera because they were OOF (Out of Focus) - with focus always trailing the athlete. The Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS USM Lens I was using is easily up to this task, but the Rebel AF system, even using the f/2.8 cross-type center point-only, did not perform so well. If you are shooting sports with a T1i, shooting stills and action that remains a constant distance from the camera will give you the highest keeper rate. Better yet, step up to one of the higher Canon EOS model lines.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com …al-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx (external link)

Vs. the comments on the 40D (which of course predate the release of the T1i)

The 30D was fast focusing, and the 40D appears at least as fast. I am getting a good AF hit rate from the 40D - even at 6.5 fps in AI Servo mode while shooting sports - some improvement is noticeable here. Overall, the 40D's AF performs very respectably in the many varied situations I've put it up against.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com …al-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx (external link)


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hpulley
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Dec 22, 2009 16:09 |  #57

Seriously, some stores have a 14 day return/21 day exchange/upgrade policy so if you are thinking about it then now might be the time. After that period you have to haggle on a used trade-in price or sell it privately though I think having both bodies would be best; 7D, 1DII or 40D with T1i backup sounds like a good combo to me, and is what I'm still beating myself over the head with trying to decide which to buy for dogs, soccer, birds to supplement the T1i which really does an awful lot well, just not fast action quite as well as I'd like.


flickr (external link) 1DIIN 40D 1NRS 650 1.4xII EF12II Pel8 50f1.8I 28-80II 17-40L 24-70L 100-400L 177A 199A OC-E3 RS-80N3

  
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plasticmotif
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Dec 22, 2009 16:16 |  #58

Kpablo wrote in post #9246655 (external link)
This forum is just a small piece of where I can get advice. I am a member of a very large local photography club, and not everyone thinks that the 40D is more suitable than the T1i.

ETA: This thread was not focused on bodies, but instead lens.

I'd like to meet those people. No offense intended. xxD line is always better than the Rebel line.

You haven't had it very long, which is why people gave you the advice. It's sound.


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kitacanon
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Dec 22, 2009 17:19 |  #59

Gabe63 wrote in post #9246642 (external link)
You have to wonder why everyone is telling you to get a 40/50/7d camera?

...it's a result of people believing that they have to shoot 5+ frames per second to get a good shot...
...that may be THEIR need, but it's not the only way of shooting action...
...the camera you have CAN do the job....
...the trick of shooting ANY action is KNOWING the action so well that you can anticipate and shoot, even single shots, at the peak/critical moment...that requires, in addition to knowledge, good reflexes, and THAT requires practice, a lot of practice....


My Canon kit 450D/s90; Canon lenses 18-55 IS, 70-210/3.5-4.5....Nikon kit: D610; 28-105/3.5-4.5, 75-300/4.5-5.6 AF, 50/1.8D Nikkors, Tamron 80-210; MF Nikkors: 50/2K, 50/1.4 AI-S, 50/1.8 SeriesE, 60/2.8 Micro Nikkor (AF locked), 85mm/1.8K-AI, 105/2.5 AIS/P.C, 135/2.8K/Q.C, 180/2.8 ED, 200/4Q/AIS, 300/4.5H-AI, ++ Tamron 70-210/3.8-4, Vivitar/Kiron 28/2, ser.1 70-210/3.5, ser.1 28-90; Vivitar/Komine and Samyang 28/2.8; 35mm Nikon F/FM/FE2, Rebel 2K...HTC RE UWA camera

  
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JeffreyG
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Dec 22, 2009 17:24 |  #60

kitacanon wrote in post #9247330 (external link)
...it's a result of people believing that they have to shoot 5+ frames per second to get a good shot...
...that may be THEIR need, but it's not the only way of shooting action...
...the camera you have CAN do the job....
...the trick of shooting ANY action is KNOWING the action so well that you can anticipate and shoot, even single shots, at the peak/critical moment...that requires, in addition to knowledge, good reflexes, and THAT requires practice, a lot of practice....

My comments relative to the T1i being a less than optimal choice have nothing to do with frame rate. My concern is with the AF system and the ability to track action.

OOF shots are useless, not matter how you slice it.

I've shot high speed action with cameras ranging from a Rebel XT (very, very difficult) to the 1D Mark III. If I'm planning to shoot fast moving subjects like atheletes or dogs then I want the best camera / lens set I can get relative to AI servo performance.

This would be moot if there was nothing available at the price of a T1i with better performance, but there is. The 40D can be found for about the cost of a T1i, and the AF system will do a better job.

The 40D has a shorter blackout period too, but I can work around that. I spent a year shooting sports with a 5D classic and I managed to train my timing to cope with the dead slow blackout of the 5D. And while we are on the topic, the 3 fps of the 5D was not a problem for me.


My personal stuff:http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jngirbach/sets/ (external link)
I use a Canon 5DIII and a Sony A7rIII

  
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Best lens for craptastic low lighting?
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