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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 06 Jan 2010 (Wednesday) 02:06
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human image stabilization

 
ceriltheblade
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Jan 06, 2010 02:06 |  #1

hello all.

i have been used to my s3IS which has, as the name states, image stabilization. IS is good.

I now moved up to the 7d and i have the tamron 28-75 (NON IS)
and I am seeing the slight blurring of my motion.....

so I decided to ask here....is there somewhere that I can learn about correct technique in camera holding, posture, or other considerations which can help me compensate for the lack of IS (as well as to make me a better photographer all around)

any and all comments and suggestions (except the negative ones! ) are welcome!

thanks

CTB


7D/5dIII
50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
600 ex-rt, 055xproB/488rc2/Sirui k40x, kenko extens tubes

  
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ceriltheblade
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Jan 06, 2010 03:13 |  #2

well, i found this article for those of you who are interested:
http://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-hold-a-digital-camera (external link)

and both the article and the comments offer a few good points. I guess I will try. If anyone has any additional comments or suggestions, I would be interested to hear them.

CTB


7D/5dIII
50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
600 ex-rt, 055xproB/488rc2/Sirui k40x, kenko extens tubes

  
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Drozz119
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Jan 06, 2010 03:48 |  #3

Although the way you hold your camera is important, your shutter speed is the most important.

The Rule of thumb is Focal length x crop factor = minimum shutter speed. With that said, if you're shooting with your 28-75mm @ 75mm, the formula would be: 75 x 1.6 = 120.

So your shutter speed should be 1/120 or faster to eliminate motion blur. That is the Standard (If you have steady hands, you may be able to go slower)

If your subject is moving fast, then you're gonna have to increase the shutter speed depending how quick they're moving.

**IS does not help freeze subject motion, just camera motion.

Here's a good post on exposure:
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088


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DStanic
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Jan 06, 2010 06:17 |  #4

use a higher ISO to get fast shutter speeds (follow the Focal length x crop factor rule as mentioned above, or faster). The S3 IS probably shouldn't go past ISO400, while the 7D has usable ISO3200 and even 6400.

I had a Sony H5 before my XTI (which is very similar to the S3IS) and I can tell you a modern DSLR with a f/2.8 zoom attached is wayyyy better for low light situations. :)


Sony A6000, 16-50PZ, 55-210, 35mm 1.8 OSS
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Tamron 28-75 2.8, Tamron 17-35, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 85mm 1.8

  
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neilwood32
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Jan 06, 2010 06:50 |  #5

Another thing to make sure of is that you are standing in a stable position. Feet approx shoulder width apart with your feet at approx 90 deg to each other.

I personally find breathing to be a big part of taking a steady shot - I breathe in slowly, release half slowly, take the shot and release the rest.

With good posture, handholding technique, breathing etc and a steady(ish) pair of hands, you can often use double your shutter speed or better (from 1/120 to 1/60 or even 1/30 on a good day).

Practise, practise and more practise is the key though.

Another thing that you will probably find becoming a requirement is a tripod, especially if you are using long lenses or slow shutter speeds to blur motion (waterfalls etc)


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Nistelrooydude
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Jan 06, 2010 06:59 |  #6

This was a big help to me; I use this technique all the time.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=EDsx3-FWfwk (external link)

Like he says though, I really only works for left eyed shooters.




  
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20droger
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Jan 06, 2010 07:02 as a reply to  @ neilwood32's post |  #7

Learn to do the other kind of shooting. There are many books and articles about how to hold yourself steady for a clean shot. The same techniques apply to using a camera. Posture, breath control, and how you hold the camera are all-important.




  
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ceriltheblade
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Jan 07, 2010 02:05 |  #8

thanks guys. I am learning that the idiom that the DSLR is not just a fancy P&S is really true (it is hard to elate when you've never used one). I find that there are a lot of differences between my S3 and my 7d - and probably even more that I have yet to discover. This is just one of the more obnoxious things in which I SURE that my technique is limiting my ability to take a sharp picture. Thanks for all the advice. I will have to practice, I suppose. (as if that is a bad thing!!)

Dstanic: I have been usin ISOs that i never even dreamed of on my S3! I agree. The 1600 is pretty damned good.....

I have been trying to compensate (in the meanwhile) for my lack of technique by using the high burst mode and taking 2-6 pictures of the same scene, hoping that one of them will come out with no or less movement. I know it is lame...but it usually works to some level.

Nistelrooydude: I am not a left eye shooter...but I will look anyway thanks for the link.

neilwood32: thanks for the advice. I will get on that. I think that I do what you say already, but I need to make sure.

Drozz119: thanks for reminding me of the exposure time rule. I will have to start really focusing on such rules....

20droger: I am sorry, but I am unsure about what you mean: "the other kind of shooting". I realize that the posture and technique are important, hence my question...but I will search for some books and more articles to see if I can gather any other techniques.

Again, thanks to all who answered!

CTB


7D/5dIII
50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
600 ex-rt, 055xproB/488rc2/Sirui k40x, kenko extens tubes

  
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djvkool
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Jan 07, 2010 02:51 |  #9

hey mate

the method I use when I am using a non-IS lens is to set the mode to high-sequence, and just deep breath, hold, and fire off about 4 shots in sequence, it does take up a lot of space if you are shooting RAW, but guaranteed at least 2 would be sharp


7D | 100 2.8L IS | 70-200 2.8L IS | 24-70 2.8L | 50 1.4 | Tam 18-270mm | Tam 17-50 2.8 | Sig 30 1.4 |

  
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pwm2
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Jan 07, 2010 02:54 |  #10

ceriltheblade wrote in post #9342020 (external link)
20droger: I am sorry, but I am unsure about what you mean: "the other kind of shooting".

Think guns.


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10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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quadwing
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Jan 07, 2010 03:31 |  #11

Drozz119 wrote in post #9334718 (external link)
Although the way you hold your camera is important, your shutter speed is the most important.

The Rule of thumb is Focal length x crop factor = minimum shutter speed. With that said, if you're shooting with your 28-75mm @ 75mm, the formula would be: 75 x 1.6 = 120.

So your shutter speed should be 1/120 or faster to eliminate motion blur. That is the Standard (If you have steady hands, you may be able to go slower)

If your subject is moving fast, then you're gonna have to increase the shutter speed depending how quick they're moving.

**IS does not help freeze subject motion, just camera motion.

Here's a good post on exposure:
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088

I shoot my 70-300 at 300mm sometimes, no blur at 1/100.


Camera gear: Canon 5D Mark IV | Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L II | Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L II | Lights: Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS

  
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neilwood32
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Jan 07, 2010 06:59 |  #12

pwm2 wrote in post #9342124 (external link)
Think guns.

Yep - shooting guns (esp long rifles) use very similar techniques for posture, bracing, breathing etc.

ceriltheblade - dont stress about the gap between your P&S and the DSLR. A lot of us (me included) bought DSLR's thinking once i have it everything will be great only to find that there is a HUGE amount to learn.
Have fun, learn the theory & technique and you realise that it was worth every second of the frustration!

Quadwing - Drozz119 posted up a general rule of thumb that is a very good starting place for people learning. With experience, posture, steady hands etc, it is very easy to undercut it (I have shot 50mm at 1 sec handheld). Would I shoot at 1 sec handheld all the time? No way as it does involve a lot of effort. As such, I would always try to follow the rule of thumb as it allows very easy no hassle shooting.


Having a camera makes you no more a photographer than having a hammer and some nails makes you a carpenter - Claude Adams
Keep calm and carry a camera!
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20droger
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Jan 07, 2010 08:13 |  #13

20droger wrote in post #9335223 (external link)
Learn to do the other kind of shooting. There are many books and articles about how to hold yourself steady for a clean shot. The same techniques apply to using a camera. Posture, breath control, and how you hold the camera are all-important.

ceriltheblade wrote in post #9342020 (external link)
20droger: I am sorry, but I am unsure about what you mean: "the other kind of shooting". I realize that the posture and technique are important, hence my question...but I will search for some books and more articles to see if I can gather any other techniques.

CTB

pwm2 wrote in post #9342124 (external link)
Think guns.

Yup, guns.

For posture, make sure you are well balanced. When standing, place your feet about shoulder width apart and pointed outward at about 45° to your hip line (90° to each other). Avoid leaning, as this will throw off your center of balance and make you less stable.

For breathing, compose your shot, take a slightly larger than normal breath (not a deep I-have-to-swim-underwater-the -length-of-the-pool breath), let about one-third of it out. pause, take your shot, then resume breathing.

For holding the camera, use both hands, the left hand supporting the camera's weight and the right hand taking the shot. Do not support the camera with your shooting hand, as this will make your hand quiver. Keep your left arm tucked into your body so the support is transferred to your torso.

And very gently press the shutter; don't jab it. The biggest single reason for camera shake is people jabbing the shutter. Your finger should sneak up on the shot very gently, almost by surprise. Try to arch you finger so that the tip is touching only the shutter button itself, not the rim around the button. If you press the rim, you move the camera.

And you get good shots just like you get to Carnegie Hall: practice, practice, practice.




  
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PhotosGuy
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Jan 07, 2010 09:20 |  #14

For posture, make sure you are well balanced. When standing, place your feet about shoulder width apart and pointed outward at about 45° to your hip line (90° to each other).

If you're panning something, try to anticipate & be perpendicular to the subject when you take the shot. When the shutter trips, keep panning with it. Shooting race cars, I've come close to hitting someone standing next to me.
It also helps to keep one AF point on the same part of the subject. Maybe a headlight for cars. Always on the eyes for people.


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ceriltheblade
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Jan 07, 2010 10:50 |  #15

thanks again to everyone for the advice and help. I never thought of the relationship between guns and photography (despite the "shooting") ! :) good tips, though I have never shot a gun, I expect that I can find people to tell me the proper posture.... words on a page, and someone telling you what you are doing wrong hae a different power, as I am sure everyone knows....

I will print out these recommendations and try them. Thanks a lot to everyone!

CTB


7D/5dIII
50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
600 ex-rt, 055xproB/488rc2/Sirui k40x, kenko extens tubes

  
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