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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Glamour & Nude Talk 
Thread started 16 Dec 2009 (Wednesday) 09:31
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Not another Model Mayhem rant

 
elipkin
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Dec 24, 2009 00:02 |  #16

John,
my thinking exactly. Plus at this point I am making nothing of these shoots ...


Eugene
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Karl ­ Johnston
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Dec 24, 2009 00:07 |  #17
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I'm not a model photographer (well, not exclusively; i have only shot three for fun) though I do know a bit about shooting portraits; I don't like the over processing on the eyes (the whites look very unnatural except in the redhead's shots..but the problem with those is the airbrush/softening look of the skin and they all look a bit underexposed by 2/3 of a stop at least.)

The shots I do like are:
http://www.modelmayhem​.com …&the_count=&gro​up_id=&ua= (external link)
http://www.modelmayhem​.com …&the_count=&gro​up_id=&ua= (external link)
http://www.modelmayhem​.com …&the_count=&gro​up_id=&ua= (external link)

I'd figure the model/photographer ratio was like this:

Photographer wants to shoot model to benefit his/her port: photographer pays or TFP
Model wants photographer to benefit his/her port: model pays or TFP
Photographer and model are equal or undecided: straight TFP

Maybe the particular models aren't seeing anything in your portfolio that will benefit them to want to come to you. I think the pictures are all you need to sell you. Cliche saying: A picture tells a thousand words.


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tinbanger1841
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Dec 30, 2009 18:55 as a reply to  @ Karl Johnston's post |  #18

pardon me, but the abbreviations are killing me. i know none of it concerns me but i am curious


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ericski
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Dec 31, 2009 12:49 |  #19

tinbanger1841 wrote in post #9292537 (external link)
pardon me, but the abbreviations are killing me. i know none of it concerns me but i am curious

TFP - Trade for Prints/TFCD - Trade for CD : model gets prints or a CD of images to use in exchange for their time

MUA : Make Up Artist


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EL_PIC
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Jan 01, 2010 20:49 |  #20
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There are a lot of problems with Model Mayhem.
Besides Servers and other technical / social , there appears to be a fantasy modeling attitude.
In other words, girls are more interested in the idea than actually doing.
You might consider other places like non fantasy model sites or real agencies.
You will also be surprized how many women will model, including nude, if you
approach as a real person at public locations.
Malls, resturants, bars, and even 1 bowling alley has worked for me.
Note - there are some real dangers with sites like MM ... mail me if you want some horror stories.


EL_PIC - RIT BS Photo '78 - Photomask Engineering Mgr
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elipkin
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Jan 04, 2010 11:40 |  #21

EL_PIC,
I am beginning to agree with you. I have MANY models wanting to shoot, and then disappearing. Some of them reappear after a week or two, then disappear gain etc. I few, very few, know how to communicate.
Granted, I am new to this and I would totaly not be surprised if I just had refusals to shoot. But people tell me that they "love, love" my work and then disappear. Or "can we shoot tomorrow" and I never hear from them again.
How do you approach people in public? Do you carry business cards and just hand them in?


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pearts
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Jan 05, 2010 13:43 |  #22

ok, I like your art work, so I will clue you in on the deal... you don't do a casting unless your going to pay.. what you instead do is come up with a shoot theme, and then go thru the new models who recently joined MM using the browse feature, and invite them, by sending a mail with the specifics of when and around where you would like to shoot it. the more you say your a professional with lots of years of experience, and yet dont seem like your in charge of the shoot, the less models will be inclined to work with you

also what you classify as mature 18+ in your port, is actualy rated PG, and by making it 18+ you start to worry models. think about this, if you took a picture of a woman on a beach in a bikini, is that an 18+ image? not in my book, thats all over the national rags like star, US, etc




  
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EL_PIC
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Jan 05, 2010 14:22 |  #23
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elipkin wrote in post #9321538 (external link)
EL_PIC,
I am beginning to agree with you. I have MANY models wanting to shoot, and then disappearing. Some of the reappear after a week or two, then disappear gain etc. I few, very few, know how to communicate.
Granted, I am new to this and I would totaly not be surprised if I just had refusals to shoot. But people tell me that they "love, love" my work and then disappear. Or "can we shoot tomorrow" and I never hear from them again.
How do you approach people in public? Do you carry business cards and just hand them in?

"You need to be a real like-able person and photographer, then you will be a real sucessfull person and photographer" - The quote is from San Francisco photographer & friend Gary Fong. It has always stayed with me.
You can't get models and other people to do what you want unless they want it more.
It's good to carry cards but if you talk thru cards or emails, you are not going anywhere.
I don't run a charm school or dating service but ...
if you think hard about the above quote - all will fall in place.
Good Interpersonal Skills are keystone to building all kinds of relationships !!

Internet Modeling is not real modeling for real people and its downright a waste of time or even dangerous in this decade of scamm, whamm, bamm, and an ocassional thank you mamm.
Be carefull ...


EL_PIC - RIT BS Photo '78 - Photomask Engineering Mgr
Canon DSLR - Nikon SLR - Phase One 60MP MFDSLR
http://www.Photo-Image-Creations.com (external link)
http://www.musecube.co​m/el_pic/ (external link)
http://www.facebook.co​m/PhotoImageCreations (external link)

  
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pearts
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Jan 05, 2010 15:23 |  #24

you need to realize that most of the women and men on model mayhem are college students, and they change their minds all the time...




  
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Hedley
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Jan 18, 2010 10:33 |  #25

I'd say for what your trying to do, your portfolio is perfectly adequate. There is no hint that you're going to ask the models do do anything odd and the pics look to be processed as well as a model doing TFP would expect. (I'm talking as someone who was recently in a similar situation)

I was recently asked to do a commissioned shoot for a small magazine, and when I put the casting call up, a large number of models who ignored my previous emails to them, suddenly were awfully keen to work with me! So I learned that the more coverage I could promise the models, the more willing they were to work for free. In the end, the model was superb and very dedicated, the shoot was great fun and the whole experience was positive.

Also, a local model who must have been feeling particularly motivated, has booked 4 hotel rooms in town for the end of this month and she has managed to organise a get together with 8 photographers, 11 models and 3 stylists/MUAs to get together for a day of portfolio boosting shooting, so if only half the numbers turn up, it'll be a lot of fun, and hopefully very productive.
You could maybe try and organise something similar round your way...?


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elipkin
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Jan 18, 2010 17:01 |  #26

I feel like I owe everyone and update on my MM saga :)
I have shot with 3 more MM models and all experiences were pretty good (standby for pictures). I had NO "no shows". What I had aplenty is someone telling me they would love to shoot with me, we get to email and even phone stage and then they disappear. I think by now I am beginning to get the feel fr who is going to do this to me. Another interesting example I have is a model who is great in responding to MM messages but after 36 of those back and forth we still have not shot. I am beginning to think she want to feel like a model rather then be one.
Overall, I think for me MM was a good thing, and I feel once you have more faces in your portfolio, more and more people will agree to shoot with you.


Eugene
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Not another Model Mayhem rant
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