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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 31 Jan 2010 (Sunday) 15:43
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How to answer questions by aspiring photographers

 
bnlearle
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Feb 05, 2010 19:58 |  #166

What is your rationale behind not posting your site? Are you saying you have a public site? But just refuse to share here? What is the reasoning behind such a decision?

And either way, if you're a full time pro, why don't you simply post photos for honest critique? You don't need a separate gallery for that.

Really not trying to blast you -- I'm sure you're a great, nice guy. I just happened to believe that you are drawing incorrect conclusions. For example, you didn't lose your job to that photographer because you helped her originally. You either lost it because a) the other photographer is better, b) the other photographer gave the client more confidence (this is HUGE. I'll book 5 figure weddings over friends of mine who are cheaper and just as good of photographers as me -- but they aren't able to give the client the confidence that they need in order to book), c) you are trying to get clients who are too budget conscious and don't really respect photography.

And for the record, I too am a full time photographer, I have no other source of income, my wife doesn't work, and, as of two days ago, we're expecting our first child (just announced it on the blog today! (external link)). I am also in the most competitive wedding photography market in the world -- by far. I have probably one of the top read wedding blogs in San Diego county and if you google "San Diego Wedding Photographer" I still come up in the hundreds. I have more shootNburner's/undercu​tters in my county than most probably have in their state and the two states that border them combined. No joke. I'm well aware of the undercutter. But fighting what can't be changed is pointless from a business standpoint. As photographers, we must adapt or get rolled over by the competition. Photography equipment (that produces quality images) is getting cheaper every year. Websites/blogs are easier than ever. Undercutters are going to flourish more and more every year. There's nothing you can do about it. Accept it and move on. I really believe you'll be benefited if you take that approach.

Bobby


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pcunite
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Feb 05, 2010 20:05 |  #167

bnlearle wrote in post #9550719 (external link)
What is your rationale behind not posting your site? Are you saying you have a public site? But just refuse to share here? What is the reasoning behind such a decision?

I can't PM you. Can you clear your quota?




  
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jdhart73
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Feb 05, 2010 21:31 |  #168

PCunite still trolling up the boards...I admire your troll ethic


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kryptic4l
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Feb 06, 2010 12:18 |  #169

I keep reef's and have spent thousands on equipment are there people with pennys on my dollar with nicer reefs then me, YES. Do I still research before I buy my next livestock or peice of equipment, yes.

Is there a plethora of camera's and attachment's out there ? yes. Has every experienced photographer used them all to see what works best ? doubtful even equipment reviewer's seldom have seen everything come through their hand's. Every purchase made effect's the photographer's bottom line. Which might be the difference between living the dream or flipping burger's.

I guess I would be up in arms as well if I dropped 20 k on equipment and was dominated by someone rocking a xsi on a shoestring budget.




  
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Philco
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Feb 07, 2010 03:36 |  #170

Bobby, I wish I could have said what you've been saying so well.

Regarding the original post and subsequent comments: We don't get to control what brides think and do, we don't get to control what aspiring photographers do, and we don't get to control how people respond to posts here. The original complaint reads like an strong desire to control what other people are doing - or in other words, it sounds like 'If everyone behaved the way I'd like them too, then the world would be a better place.'' Like Mahatma Gahndi said' "Be the change you want to see in the world" All any of us can do is run our best race, shoot to the best of our ability, keep learning and paying it forward.

I knew an f-stop from a truck stop when I first started posting here, but I hadn't shot my first wedding and I had serious questions born of a desire to learn these things for the long term. I asked questions because I'd rather not reinvent the wheel all by myself and so many aspects of shooting weddings seemed very mysterious. So, I have empathy for aspiring shooters ( call them hacks if you want ) because I remember being in their shoes. There is absolutely no substitue for experience, but not everyone gets lucky like I did when I got to shoot a handful of weddings as an updaid third shooter with one of the higher-profile shooters in my city. I third-shot four weddings, then shot my first wedding solo and did a respecatble job for the money I charged.

In any case, If I believe a 24-70L is going to be a good decision in the long run, then I will whole heartedly recommend it. This is primarily a forum for amateurs and aspiring professionals. It's not a pro forum that we pay to belong to. If you, pcunite, feel misunderstood or underappreciated here, I would recommend participating in a stricly professional forum of your peers.


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Phil ­ V
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Feb 10, 2010 15:55 |  #171

I have a question, but for clarity this is my experience:
I've been in and around this industry for a long time, there have been boom times and low points, this is about the lowest I remember (and I went bust in the last UK recession).

My question:
Where are all the Brides who've had their wedding day's wrecked by incompetent photographers?

I'm aware it's happened (2 news stories I recall in the last year), but I'm a member of several forums, and I'm aware that in the UK alone I'd guess there's probably a dozen 'first wedding photo's' every weekend. So where are all these heartbroken brides that we need to don our armour to defend?

And if I'm not aware of them and you are, is that some information you could share? Because that might be your killer point - but for now it looks like what everyone else is seeing.


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ChasWG
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Feb 12, 2010 03:41 |  #172

What a freaking waste of an hour this has been. Mildly entertaining? Yes. Did the OP have a point worth carrying on for 6 pages? No. Did several Mods try to step in and say "Play Nice?" Yes.

Was anything resolved? Hell No!

I'll just say this: I am probably one of these people that the OP calls a hack.
Have I ever shot a wedding before? No
Am I getting ready to shoot my first wedding by asking questions? Yes
Do I own a 24-70 f2.8L? Yes
Have I ever asked a quetion about a specific lens? Yes

Well Damn! Paint me a hack newbie why don't you!?!

Or maybe not...

After reading all of this drivel from the OP (I won't use his screen name here so as to protect his identity, it seems he may be wanted by the FBI or is so seriously famous that he can't be found out) I am thinking he is about 23 to 26 years old. As he said, he spent some time at a photo training facility and he thinks his work is on par with the masters. Have I got it right so far? So, if that's the case he is much, much yonger than myself and I'll bet that I have been taking photographs and being paid for them longer than he's been alive. Hmmm... But remember, I'm a hack that's going to ruin someone's life!
He may be paid to take photographs (were not really sure because for his own safety he can't publish his work or point us to his web site, only the four or so images that were leaked out some time ago are allowed to be seen) or so he says.

The point is OP, you paint everyone with the same brush. You are arrogant and little minded. You are insecure about your own business (if you really have one that is) and you are trying to find someone else to be your scapegoat. As others have said, If you are loosing out to some noob with an XTi and a 18-55 then you deserve to go out of business. Either grow up or sell your gear and raise tomatoes.

Oh, and your link to tat other persons drivel blog, a waste of time. You two are cut from the same cloth. Or are you a deciple of his? He too paints people with the same brush as you.
Arrogant schmucks! :rolleyes:


Chas Gordon
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SOK
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Feb 12, 2010 05:27 |  #173

ChasWG wrote in post #9594237 (external link)
If you are loosing out to some noob with an XTi and a 18-55 then you deserve to go out of business. Either grow up or sell your gear and raise tomatoes.

This has my vote for MVP*

*most valuable post


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ChasWG
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Feb 12, 2010 09:37 |  #174

SOK wrote in post #9594397 (external link)
This has my vote for MVP*

*most valuable post

Thank you, thank you! Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. ;) :rolleyes:

BTW, I love your Sock Avatar!!


Chas Gordon
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NavyShrink
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Aug 26, 2011 03:47 |  #175

pcunite wrote in post #9547930 (external link)
Your one in a million CDI... literally... miracles do happen :)

Respectfully...no he's not. This is the typical learning curve for almost any skill. The first attempts at acquiring any new skill are usually muddled and haphazard. One poster here recommended working portraiture for a year before shooting a wedding, another mentioned assisting or "shadowing" a wedding photographer. I personally think apprenticeship is a good model--it's how we train in medicine. However, you are not going to be able to enforce that. As far as I know, there's no licensure requirement for wedding photography, which makes the market the wild west. Caveat emptor! I'll take you at your word that you lament the effect of "hacks" on unsuspecting brides, but what is your solution? To stop helping the newbies here? (Which include me, btw.) I would argue that helping newbies probably, more often than not, indirectly helps these brides. How many shoots by less-experienced photographers were probably improved by help received on these forums? The net effect is probably a positive.


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dche5390
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Aug 26, 2011 04:12 |  #176

Hot batman! Thread revival!


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bnlearle
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Aug 26, 2011 04:34 |  #177

Whoa! This was such an interesting read (again)! :D Totally forgot about it...


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SOK
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Aug 26, 2011 05:11 as a reply to  @ bnlearle's post |  #178

Sssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh!

You'll wake the OP.

:p


Steve
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Daedalus34r
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Aug 26, 2011 09:06 |  #179

pcunite wrote in post #9512162 (external link)
First the problem:
What makes someone on this forum recommend a 24-70 to a poster who does not understand basic rules of portraiture? Do you get that big of a high announcing to the world that you own the very lens this poor wannabe needs? Is that it? Is that wants in it for you? POTN should be trying to help and protect brides NOT hacks. Shooting weddings is for club members who CARE about people, not who care only about our egos and the brand of gear we use.

Anyone can learn photography... it is not rocket science, but please use a little judgment when answering threads. If this was a small aircraft forum would you help the fellow who wants to know where the altimeter is? "Well jimmy it is to the left... make sure you glance at once an hour" For real ???

Common questions:
Not knowing the following is unacceptable for photographing weddings:
* What flash to buy
* What lens to buy
* What camera to buy
* What to charge
* What manual settings to use
* insert 20 questions here

The default answer:
These questions are dead giveaways that someone is unprepared! Answering them will not prepare them! The standard answer from POTN ought to be "Go shoot portraits for a year or go to a workshop. Oh and welcome to POTN". If people have been shooting portraits for money or attending a workshop there would be none of these silly questions.
 

Fiiiiiiiinally someone with the guts to tell it like it is. I see waaay to many basic questions on this forum that make my eyes roll.


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Phoenixkh
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Aug 26, 2011 09:35 |  #180

I'm not sure about posting on this thread. I'm not a professional photographer.. and I only have a G12.

I do have a question.... how in the world do you wedding photographers do it? I've seen many photos posted here of various weddings. While the work can be excellent... the subjects are often less than desirable. I don't think I could do that. You "guys" (including the women photographers, obviously) provide an amazing service....you must be able to see beauty where I cannot.

My question is about attitude, I guess.... How are you able to get great shots like you do when the subject matter is beyond your control?

If this post is out of bounds, let me know... I'll delete it.

Kim


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
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How to answer questions by aspiring photographers
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