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Thread started 08 Feb 2010 (Monday) 10:56
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Rebel T2i Announced.

 
ferretkingdom
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Feb 08, 2010 21:45 |  #16

Since the better video is not a big deal for me, I'm really not impressed by the T2i. I like my T1i and don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I'm gonna hold our for a 5D for the Full frame or something like the 7D for the higher FPS. Chances are I won't end up getting anything new for years, until I can afford the newest 1 series camera! :)


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preveen
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Feb 09, 2010 04:43 |  #17

Tempting, but I'll pass for something with a second clickwheel. The most tempting thing is actually the metering and the 5 stop exposure compensation.




  
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Lelin
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Feb 09, 2010 13:37 |  #18

Still hoping for a 60D...


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Invertalon
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Feb 09, 2010 13:51 |  #19

I love how people do nothing but complain about more MP, yet Canon's ISO performance is great.

7D is *VERY* usable at 6400, and that is a crammed 18MP sensor. It is a one-stop increase, at least, over the T1i's ISO performance on a 15MP sensor. The T1i was an improvement over the XSI's 12MP sensor. Yeah, I DEFINATLY see the trend here of higher MP, worse noise...

If you can increase ISO usability, AND increase MP, why the hell not?

"Damn, I had to crop 20% of my photo today. And look, I can still print an 10x8 with great resolution! Stupid Canon!"

I think the high MP/bad ISO performance "argument" is foolish anymore... Get off the bandwagon!


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hawk911
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Feb 09, 2010 13:55 |  #20

the video is still limited to 13 minute segments, right? It hardly replaces a video camera.


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Kiwikat
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Feb 09, 2010 14:25 |  #21

This thing is ridiculously priced. For another hundred dollars or so you could get a brand new 50D...

The T2i's price better drop rapidly. It is easily 100-150 dollars overpriced, imho.


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Karl ­ Johnston
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Feb 09, 2010 14:36 |  #22
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I wish they would stop dealing these gimmicky cameras and work on some real updates to real photographers, not just gear heads and soccer moms. I almost want to switch over to Nikon because their developments actually mean real upgrades.


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ferretkingdom
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Feb 09, 2010 21:42 |  #23

Karl Johnston wrote in post #9575719 (external link)
I wish they would stop dealing these gimmicky cameras and work on some real updates to real photographers, not just gear heads and soccer moms. I almost want to switch over to Nikon because their developments actually mean real upgrades.

So switch, LOL. There must be some reason you still shoot Canon and not Nikon


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sanjeedbd
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Feb 09, 2010 23:12 |  #24

If my Canon lenses could be mounted on Nikon bodies; I would get one Nikon body today. Nikon bodies are aimed at users' needs and perform better. I'm in full agreement that Canon lenses are supreme for their quality, variety and price competitiveness. Sorry, the bodies are not.




  
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Persephone
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Feb 09, 2010 23:33 |  #25

sanjeedbd wrote in post #9570166 (external link)
Canon's mania for high pixel count seems to be a chronic problem. They are not that concerned about IQ and good ISO performance. It won't be long before they lose their appeal and market share to competitors as enthusiasts already know high pixel counts don't produce good images. Fewer numbers mean bigger pixels and bigger pixels produce cleaner images.

And for good usable video performance at least a camcorder is a must. The Canon camcorder sellers will testify that.

It's the Rebel line. This line has to pander more to the consumer than the higher lines, which includes upping the MPs. In fact, the Rebel line actually outpaced the xxD line for a bit, the XSi having more MP than the 40D. Then the 50D and T1I had 15 MP. The T2I means that the 60D, and I'm 95% sure, will also have 18 MP.

But I am heartened that the T2I has the full array of video options now.


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Er1kksen
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Feb 10, 2010 01:53 |  #26

Invertalon wrote in post #9575398 (external link)
I love how people do nothing but complain about more MP, yet Canon's ISO performance is great.

7D is *VERY* usable at 6400, and that is a crammed 18MP sensor. It is a one-stop increase, at least, over the T1i's ISO performance on a 15MP sensor. The T1i was an improvement over the XSI's 12MP sensor. Yeah, I DEFINATLY see the trend here of higher MP, worse noise...

If you can increase ISO usability, AND increase MP, why the hell not?

"Damn, I had to crop 20% of my photo today. And look, I can still print an 10x8 with great resolution! Stupid Canon!"

I think the high MP/bad ISO performance "argument" is foolish anymore... Get off the bandwagon!

Let them drink their kool-aid. Those of us who are ready to take advantage of a higher-performance sensor can do so at a much more affordable price now that the 550D is out, and the rest will come to it as soon as the "awful performance of the crammed-in pixels" in the 20+mp APS-C sensors we'll see in a few years makes them forget how "horrible" these 18mp are... heck, they might even notice that it somehow produces better prints than their old low-density xTis and xSis...

Canon knows what they're doing. And they'll continue to do so, to our benefit. :)


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heartsdales
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Feb 10, 2010 09:36 |  #27

I wonder how much it will costs...




  
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Er1kksen
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Feb 10, 2010 09:59 |  #28

heartsdales wrote in post #9581117 (external link)
I wonder how much it will costs...

No need to wonder, just look at the stated pricing on the press releases. $799 body-only to start off, $899 kit, and you can expect prices to come down by $100 or so within a month. After that it really depends on the market.


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PIXmantra
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Feb 10, 2010 11:18 |  #29

Well, in reality, it is not the case...

Invertalon wrote in post #9575398 (external link)
I think the high MP/bad ISO performance "argument" is foolish anymore... Get off the bandwagon!

...The problem with this approach is how much quieter the sensor has to be, and the proportional gains in deep-darks vs. the proportional LOSS of full-well (e.g. max light-gathering capabilities, which has a dramatic impact on dynamic range, and how intense "light" is handled by the sensels). The gains of on the bottom move at a certain "speed" and the loss at the top moves at another "speed", as we continue to shrink the sensels, and work on the manufacturing process and technology.

There very good samples of what happens when you start going too far. And, at ISo6400, the 7D has been already maxed out... and these issues DO NOT necessarily show (conversely to popular and conventional street belief) as resolution-loss, etc. They appear in the forme of CRIPPLED tonality, a sense of "dryness/opaqueness", visible loss of "shine-factor" and and overall "recessed" tonality and color density... which transfers the image a sort of point-and-shoot feel, regardless of the RAW conversion process you use (it will not matter which!). These issues only complicate matters even further, especially when you move to terminal Noise Reduction, at the end of the workflow, where you already need as much fidelity and color saturation as possible, in order to survive the proportionally stronger noise-reduction levels that you will need in order to remove any objectionable components and spectra, either at at 50%-size view or in paper.

Here's an example of the 1D MarkIII (left) and the 7D (right), neck-to-neck, at ISo6400 and the difference is already obvious (putting aside the massive destruction of red-channel detail by DiGiCIV which we will not address in this comparison):

http://www.pbase.com …/image/12136253​6/original (external link) (global view)
http://www.pbase.com …/image/12136251​5/original (external link)
http://www.pbase.com …/image/12136251​9/original (external link)
http://www.pbase.com …/image/12136252​3/original (external link)
http://www.pbase.com …/image/12136252​6/original (external link)
http://www.pbase.com …/image/12136253​1/original (external link)

What you see in the first link (global view, opaqueness/dryness/los​s of tonal/chroma response on 7D) I also see on the 1D MarkIII... only when I push its files to ISO25,600ec (!)

Cheers,

PIX


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Er1kksen
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Feb 10, 2010 11:32 as a reply to  @ PIXmantra's post |  #30

I see nothing to suggest that that effect is not simply the effect of stronger NR being used to counteract the 7D's slightly higher image noise (to be expected from a smaller sensor) and the fact that the 7D image is viewed at a significantly higher magnification, for whatever reason. Either way, let's not forget that these are JPEGs. This comparison says more about Canon's jpeg engines than it does about the sensor output.

Beyond that, you're comparing two same-generation sensors with different sizes. Of course the larger sensor is going to have better imaging characteristics; it's enlarged less for the same output size. The claim many are making here is that the 7D/T2i's higher pixel density will give it worse imaging characteristics than previous-gen sensors with lower pixel density. This is quite simply not true, as can be seen by comparing files at equal output sizes. The comparison you have posted just isn't really relevant.

Also, for what it's worth, the sensor with the most "CRIPPLED tonality, a sense of "dryness/opaqueness", visible loss of "shine-factor" and and overall "recessed" tonality and color density" in its RAW files that I've ever used was the 40D. The best, in that sense, was the higher-density Pentax K20D, and the Pentax K-x interestingly falls somewhere between the two. Not a big deal to me, RAW files aren't supposed to look vivid, and proper processing can get excellent, satisfying images out of any of these sensors. What the initial RAW files look like is not terribly important, I don't know anyone who shoots RAW and then posts unchanged default jpeg conversions. The final jpegs (or prints) that result from the RAW file as interpreted by the artist are what truly matters.


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Rebel T2i Announced.
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