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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 26 Feb 2010 (Friday) 12:04
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Sent back the 7d ):

 
rakesh
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Mar 03, 2010 21:18 |  #421

Mine has come back from Canon yesterday and will go for a test shoot on Saturday. As per Canon they compared my 7D body with two other bodies and did some adjustments. Though as Canon Service Centre, images were looking fine but still I've dout that in field it will perform same. Canon has agreed to replace my 7D with new one if still I'm not getting atleast 70% images in focus.


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HKGuns
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Mar 03, 2010 21:37 |  #422

I really wish the pixel peeping, pixel density arguers would migrate back over to DPR. The reason I left that place and started reading here, is just the kind of crap that is going on in this thread.

The 7D obviously doesn't suck and like so many other things, expectations, perception and in some cases skill play a role in the like or dislike of a camera body.

Tharmsen, your posts are truly puzzling me. I see one thread where you pull out your sword in defense of a Canon body being trashed in a Nikon forum, ISO performance if my memory is correct. Then you're harping about the 7D and DIV in every thread on this site, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. Your last name isn't Ditka is it? :)




  
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tharmsen
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Mar 03, 2010 22:41 |  #423

HKGuns wrote in post #9724441 (external link)
Tharmsen, your posts are truly puzzling me. I see one thread where you pull out your sword in defense of a Canon body being trashed in a Nikon forum, ISO performance if my memory is correct. Then you're harping about the 7D and DIV in every thread on this site, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. Your last name isn't Ditka is it? :)

Unlike many here, I'm not a blind Canon loyalist. If I see a problem, I report it. When I got my 1D4 I was enamored with it. Now, a month later, I'm seeing several flaws in the body, some more serious than others.

But thanks for reading "every thread on this site". Exaggerate much?

By the way, I haven't "pixel peeped" once in this thread. I have cut out sections of full sized images to share, but they aren't magnified. If you consider looking at full sized images (you know, 3000 x 4000 or so pixels) "pixel peeping", perhaps you should look into what true pixel peeping is.

If you don't like the results of my personal tests, fine. Move on. But attacking me or my credibility is unnecessary. I'm sure you can find more constructive ways to spend your time online.




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squashed
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Mar 03, 2010 23:05 |  #424

<-- Thanks the lord the 50D was released first.


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Brett
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Mar 03, 2010 23:06 |  #425

Just to bring the discussion back around: tharmsen, have you looked at Gabe and Salt's crops compared to your "gun scrubber" images? (and I only bold that because I never got your opinion when they were first posted).

Salt showed crops (unsharpened, according to him) that compare favorably to the 5D classic -- a sharp camera, by most measures. Gabe's crops are similarly convincing, and should (according to his explanation) only have default DPP sharpening.

With a complete lack of "taking sides", I'm curious what conclusion you draw from those. Were your cameras (I think you said you had three) anomalous to the general population of 7Ds in the wild? Or are Gabe's and Salt's 7Ds unique in some way? Or is their testing flawed?

I only keep up with this thread because the 7D interests me as a backup, and as a somewhat "revolutionary" camera for Canon. The video very much intrigues me as well.



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gabebalazs
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Mar 03, 2010 23:13 |  #426

Brett wrote in post #9725011 (external link)
Just to bring the discussion back around: tharmsen, have you looked at Gabe and Salt's crops compared to your "gun scrubber" images? (and I only bold that because I never got your opinion when they were first posted).

Salt showed crops (unsharpened, according to him) that compare favorably to the 5D classic -- a sharp camera, by most measures. Gabe's crops are similarly convincing, and should (according to his explanation) only have default DPP sharpening.

With a complete lack of "taking sides", I'm curious what conclusion you draw from those. Were your cameras (I think you said you had three) anomalous to the general population of 7Ds in the wild? Or are Gabe's and Salt's 7Ds unique in some way? Or is their testing flawed?

I only keep up with this thread because the 7D interests me as a backup, and as a somewhat "revolutionary" camera for Canon. The video very much intrigues me as well.

Good point.
I don't want to hijack the thread but the video really saved my life a few weeks ago. I was working on an urgent video side project on Tanzanian and American women artists relations which was eventually shown in the US Embassy in Tanzania, when I found out that the SONY betacam SP camera of the company that I work for was locked up in a factory (where we shot weeks before) and I had no access to it. And I really needed to do an interview with one of the Tanzanian artists. I thought I was in big trouble and was prepared to use my old little Panasonic handycam, when a lightbulb went off above my head: just use the 7D! :)
So I tested it, and I was able to do a nice available light interview video with my 7D and 17-55 IS in 1080p. It came out great. I recorded the sound separately through a pro microphone and syncronized it later in Premier Pro.

Anyway, long story short, I did not purchase the 7D for video, and always tend to forget about it, but it really saved my life during that project. In fact, that interview footage is the best, most professional looking part of the whole video. :) (Unfortunately, I had to work with inferior raw footage, shot in Tanzania by someone with a malfunctioning video camera).


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zincozinco
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Mar 04, 2010 00:55 |  #427

Brett wrote in post #9725011 (external link)
Just to bring the discussion back around: tharmsen, have you looked at Gabe and Salt's crops compared to your "gun scrubber" images? (and I only bold that because I never got your opinion when they were first posted).

Salt showed crops (unsharpened, according to him) that compare favorably to the 5D classic -- a sharp camera, by most measures. Gabe's crops are similarly convincing, and should (according to his explanation) only have default DPP sharpening.

With a complete lack of "taking sides", I'm curious what conclusion you draw from those. Were your cameras (I think you said you had three) anomalous to the general population of 7Ds in the wild? Or are Gabe's and Salt's 7Ds unique in some way? Or is their testing flawed?

I only keep up with this thread because the 7D interests me as a backup, and as a somewhat "revolutionary" camera for Canon. The video very much intrigues me as well.

No offense here but why would you take one members word as the decision whether to buy a camera or not, the 7d with all its flaws - is still the best body for the money out there. No other camera on the market comes close at that Price.


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HKGuns
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Mar 04, 2010 06:44 |  #428

tharmsen wrote in post #9724865 (external link)
But thanks for reading "every thread on this site". Exaggerate much?

By the way, I haven't "pixel peeped" once in this thread. I have cut out sections of full sized images to share, but they aren't magnified. If you consider looking at full sized images (you know, 3000 x 4000 or so pixels) "pixel peeping", perhaps you should look into what true pixel peeping is.

If you don't like the results of my personal tests, fine. Move on. But attacking me or my credibility is unnecessary. I'm sure you can find more constructive ways to spend your time online.

No, it isn't an exaggeration. I'll let the others look at your negative 7D and 1DIV post history in the last 30 or so posts. They can draw their own conclusions. Do you really want me to pull the data out?

I don't consider my response an attack on your credibility. You seem very much bent on moving to Nikon, just do it and save everyone the dramatics. I'm sure you'll find enough to nit pick on the other side as well.

I see a lot of extremely sharp pictures in this thread, many in response to your posts, without so much as an acknowledgement from you.

Moving on...........




  
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ChrisMichels
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Mar 04, 2010 07:22 |  #429

I think I'm going to have to send back my 7D. I tried convincing myself that it was user error, but after some controlled tests, I think it's either the camera or the lens.

I shot at a map taped to the wall in a well lit room multiple times to test the focus. About 3 of 5 times the camera focused in a different location. The camera was on a tripod, and I used both the EOS remote tool to shoot the pictures, as well as the in camera 2 second timer to avoid any camera shake. I can get some pretty nice shots focusing manually (obviously) and some of the shots taken from the camera are spot on, just not very many. I'm guessing this is a function of the camera, and not the lens, but will test again tonight with a different lens. At first I thought it was a micro adjust issue, which I can understand (and sort of expect). When readjusting the focus, then checking the calibration, nothing would be as sharp as I had thought during the initial calibration. I would reset, only to find, that it was off the other way again after re focusing. Pretty frustrating.

I do love the camera, it's features, and look forward to seeing what it can do when working properly. But I do think it's pretty obvious, there are more than just a few lemons out there.




  
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tharmsen
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Mar 04, 2010 07:22 |  #430

Brett wrote in post #9725011 (external link)
Just to bring the discussion back around: tharmsen, have you looked at Gabe and Salt's crops compared to your "gun scrubber" images? (and I only bold that because I never got your opinion when they were first posted).

Salt showed crops (unsharpened, according to him) that compare favorably to the 5D classic -- a sharp camera, by most measures. Gabe's crops are similarly convincing, and should (according to his explanation) only have default DPP sharpening.

With a complete lack of "taking sides", I'm curious what conclusion you draw from those. Were your cameras (I think you said you had three) anomalous to the general population of 7Ds in the wild? Or are Gabe's and Salt's 7Ds unique in some way? Or is their testing flawed?

I only keep up with this thread because the 7D interests me as a backup, and as a somewhat "revolutionary" camera for Canon. The video very much intrigues me as well.

Thanks for the civil, non-accusatory post. If only others could learn from your example.

I can't comment on the images posted by others because I don't have the RAW's to examine. Unfortunately people tend to apply sharpening either by accident (they don't check their default settings) or on purpose to try and defend their cameras. We had one person submit an example of a sharp 7D image and when asked to see the CR2 file he admitted he had applied "a little" sharpening. We had another poster in this thread claim he compared his 7D side by side with his 5D2 and the 7D produced far superior images. 7 hours later that same poster started a thread elsewhere saying his 5D2 just came in the mail and it's the most amazing camera he's ever owned.

So when people continuously post resized, sharpened or otherwise edited images they're of little use to me and I can't make a judgement. When users fabricate stories about tests they've done with cameras they don't have it's counter productive. So, instead of causing conflict by questioning the images, I haven't addressed each and every one directly after so many obviously edited examples were posted. But then even when I try to avoid conflict, people like HKGuns go on a tirade regardless of how I respond.

There are two possible answers to your question.

1) All 7D's produce flawed images. I've personally tested 3 of them. All three produced identical images. I place far more weight in my own hands on experience than I do with JPG's posted on a forum. That's not to say I completely discount anything posted here, but I just weight my own tests more heavily.

2) Not all 7D's produce soft images and I've only had the misfortune of handling 3 flawed examples. As I said before in another post (one which HKGuns apparently missed) I'm not a gambling man. When I buy a $1700 body I need to believe I have a very good chance of getting a working copy. I don't like buying things only to have to return them to the manufacturer for service to get them working as I expect. Had I bought the 3 cameras I examined first hand, I would be very dissatisfied.

If you read this thread carefully, you will see a substantial number of 7D owners who have either returned their bodies for service or have returned them for another camera entirely. It's not just me that's seen issues with the body. That tells me my experience with the 7D isn't uncommon or a fluke.

But that isn't to say you shouldn't buy one. For every unhappy owner there is a happy one (perhaps more than one). Again, my goal here is only to share my findings, as much as that angers the loyalists, it's not intended to dissuade you or anyone else from buying a 7D or any other body. It's simply a discussion and sharing of experiences. Some people appreciate that. How do I know? Because I've received several "thank you" PM's for being honest and presenting my findings despite the loyalists that relentlessly attack anyone that posts unflattering comments about their pet brand.




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tharmsen
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Mar 04, 2010 07:25 |  #431

HKGuns wrote in post #9726347 (external link)
No, it isn't an exaggeration. I'll let the others look at your negative 7D and 1DIV post history in the last 30 or so posts. They can draw their own conclusions. Do you really want me to pull the data out?

30 posts is "every single thread"? Not even close. We're really talking about what, two or three threads?

I don't consider my response an attack on your credibility. You seem very much bent on moving to Nikon, just do it and save everyone the dramatics. I'm sure you'll find enough to nit pick on the other side as well.

I don't care what you consider your posts to be. It's obvious you're trying to shout me down and silence my opinion.

I guess you've missed all of my comments about how happy I am with the 5D2. ...and here I was thinking you were objective.

I see a lot of extremely sharp pictures in this thread, many in response to your posts, without so much as an acknowledgement from you.

Moving on...........

See my posts above.

I'm glad you've decided to move on. Perhaps we can continue to have a civil discussion in your absence without getting the thread locked.




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zincozinco
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Mar 04, 2010 07:26 |  #432

You got thanks? Oh man Ill take down my examples of the 5d2 and the 7d from my server...


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Mar 04, 2010 08:02 |  #433

tharmsen wrote in post #9726483 (external link)
I can't comment on the images posted by others because I don't have the RAW's to examine. Unfortunately people tend to apply sharpening either by accident (they don't check their default settings) or on purpose to try and defend their cameras.
...............So when people continuously post resized, sharpened or otherwise edited images they're of little use to me and I can't make a judgement. .

The reason I never let posted images on the web influence my buying decisions.

I do use the Archives to get subject and compositional ideas but they never influence my buying decisions.


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Mar 04, 2010 08:26 |  #434

squashed wrote in post #9725007 (external link)
<-- Thanks the lord the 50D was released first.

LOL _ in which a major first production release had many returning for a refund or replacement due to a lens/camera communication error. Enough so that Canon promptly came up with a firmware release for it.




  
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Mar 04, 2010 08:31 |  #435

I can't comment on the images posted by others because I don't have the RAW's to examine. Unfortunately people tend to apply sharpening either by accident (they don't check their default settings) or on purpose to try and defend their cameras. We had one person submit an example of a sharp 7D image and when asked to see the CR2 file he admitted he had applied "a little" sharpening. We had another poster in this thread claim he compared his 7D side by side with his 5D2 and the 7D produced far superior images. 7 hours later that same poster started a thread elsewhere saying his 5D2 just came in the mail and it's the most amazing camera he's ever owned.

First of all, I believe and admit that a 100% crop from a 5DII is better than a 7D 100%, I have no problem with that, it'd be shame if it wasn't considering FF, higher price etc. Naturally, it also scores much higher in the res chart measurements.

BUT, you're saying you can't comment on the crops I posted or the dozens of other good ones in the 7D 100% crops thread because you don't have the RAW files. So, what you see here is irrelevant because you don't know what people did to them to make them look good?
To me that sounds like as if for example my neighbor's son scores very high on SAT, but no, I don't buy that, I can't tell if he's smart or not because I don't know how much he studied for it. Or the math teacher who does not give you any points on your math quiz because even though your final results are all perfect, he/she doesn't know how you got to them (which I know happens, teachers do want to see your workflow.)

I hope I wasn't offensive in my argument.

but again, you have access to 7D (and other cameras') RAW files at imaging-resource.com just to name one.


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Sent back the 7d ):
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