Today's trend - Do Brides really want 4x6's?

cjcastan wrote in post #9811388
besides at what I charge now. i think people should get something tangible, makes them feel they get their money's worth. it only costs a couple hundred to get the proof prints and box or proof book.

A couple of hundred dollars is significant in terms of profit. I looked at my overall profit per wedding recently, taking into account albums costs, phones, internet, equipment, repairs, tax, etc, and even though I charge fairly well my profit was much less than expected.

Weekend warriors probably have less of an issue with this, since they have less equipment and all the money goes straight into their pocket. Actually that's probably a generally more profitable way to run a wedding photography "business".

My main concern when creating packages was I did NOT want to take away the bride's freedom of selecting exactly what she wants. I did not want to tell a bride that she will receive x-number of 4x6's (she may not have any interest in 4x6's, so why force them on her?)

As a matter of fact, I have now stated on my website:

"Most wedding photographers tell you what prints you'll receive in your wedding package. They select "how many" and "what size" without any input from you.

That's why we do business a little different by using Print Credits. A Print Credit offers you the freedom to select items you want instead of being restricted to what someone else has chosen for you. Each of our wedding packages includes a Print Credit up to $500 for you to spend however you like."

I know photographers that force their clients to set up an appointment after the wedding to view proofs and place orders for prints. In today's hectic times, this isn't feasible. Why not simply let them view all their photos online and place orders as well, in the comfort of their homes?

Your workflow should flow for both you, and your customers. I would like to say a special "thanks" to all of you who took the time to discuss this. Also a huge "thank you" to POTN. This site is a great learning tool.

tim wrote in post #9811708
A couple of hundred dollars is significant in terms of profit. I looked at my overall profit per wedding recently, taking into account albums costs, phones, internet, equipment, repairs, tax, etc, and even though I charge fairly well my profit was much less than expected.

Weekend warriors probably have less of an issue with this, since they have less equipment and all the money goes straight into their pocket. Actually that's probably a generally more profitable way to run a wedding photography "business".

at that package price my COGS is around 17% (including staffers / prints / webhosting etc) if I have to kick back to a coordinator it's 27%. That is acceptable to me in my guidelines.

according to PPA business guidelines COGS for a home based studio in America should be 35% so I beat the bench mark by 8% even if I have to kick back 10% to a wedding planner.

some of the costs you mentioned cannot be broken down into a per wedding basis (repair / equipment / internet / insurance / repair / etc). These costs are your fixed costs or overhead. Whether you shoot 1 wedding or 100 you still incur these costs by hanging a shingle for business.

depending on how you look at your financials they might work for you. I do have a finance degree with honors from one of the top undergraduate business programs in the states, so I feel that if my benchmarks are doing well compared to industry standards established by the PPA then I'm on the right track.

cjcastan wrote in post #9812501
at that package price my COGS is around 17% (including staffers / prints / webhosting etc) if I have to kick back to a coordinator it's 27%. That is acceptable to me in my guidelines.

according to PPA business guidelines COGS for a home based studio in America should be 35% so I beat the bench mark by 8% even if I have to kick back 10% to a wedding planner.

some of the costs you mentioned cannot be broken down into a per wedding basis (repair / equipment / internet / insurance / repair / etc). These costs are your fixed costs or overhead. Whether you shoot 1 wedding or 100 you still incur these costs by hanging a shingle for business.

depending on how you look at your financials they might work for you. I do have a finance degree with honors from one of the top undergraduate business programs in the states, so I feel that if my benchmarks are doing well compared to industry standards established by the PPA then I'm on the right track.

I did accounting when I was 15, and found that it was mostly common sense with convention applied to confuse things. I mostly work on common sense. Revenue - expenses / number weddings = profit per wedding. There's no point disregarding fixed costs.

tim wrote in post #9812595
I did accounting when I was 15, and found that it was mostly common sense with convention applied to confuse things. I mostly work on common sense. Revenue - expenses / number weddings = profit per wedding. There's no point disregarding fixed costs.

I hate finances, so I pay an accountant to figure these things out for me

I dislike accounting and finances so I just offer my clients a very streamlined package and have little or no work to do after the wedding. Any extra work I do do just generates me more revenue so I guess that's okay

I sell 4x6s every so often, so I keep offering them. I've never included them as proofs though. Heck I've never done printed proofs in any form.

Oh and this is why I sell 4x6s. Some people like to put them in series. Far right. I didn't emphasize it but you can get the idea. Those are my shots from their e-session and the table is in the lobby of their reception venue. They also ordered the 5x7 in front from me. It's not a huge revenue stream but it pays my cell phone bill. I also got a LOT of complements on the pics.

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We don't offer any prints in our packages, they are all purcahsed a la carte in order to reach the investment level of getting the digital files. Years ago when we were film we did, but in our area there is not a great desire to have proofs, We've even referred to them as old-fashioned paper proofs in our sales material. I don't know if a 4x6 print actually allows an image to shine,but that's just my opinon.

BOUNCINGNRG wrote in post #9800538
client computer screens are not calabrated and we all know how image can look on a non calabrated monitor,

That's what disclaimers are for.

Seriously. Don't some of them book you via your website? Your website photos aren't going to look any better if their monitor is and always has been out of whack. Plus you said you sell the disk, so it's all rather moot.

I see people use this "investment" phrase now and then, but I'm never clear on it's meaning relative to photography. In what context do you use it?

digitalphotocandy wrote in post #10117835
We don't offer any prints in our packages, they are all purcahsed a la carte in order to reach the investment level of getting the digital files. ......

If you want to sell prints, then you will do better letting them see some. Seeing them on the screen is a lot different from holding them in your hand. Not only do they need to see a pro printed print, but you would do well to have a walmart print of the same image next to it to make sure they see the difference.

I still give a proof book with weddings but I just order the 4x6 spiral bound directly from the lab. I do offer them the option to opt out of it for a print credit though. And even if they opt out, I'll select about 5 of the best images and get them as 8x10s or 5x7s and offer them for sale of course. You would be amazed at how many people will buy their nice photos if they are in front of them and they know the alternative is to see those lovely photos go in the trash.

4x6's are a PIA as far as im concerned. Really, unless thay are putting them into a book with a bunch of inserts to put them in,,why bother.

We give the clients a disc with all images taken. They need to pick out 65-75 shots for thier albums as a starting point. If they want 4x6 prints i offer to get them at my cost. They cost us .29 cents each. Rarely do they ever want them anymore. If they want prints we get them for them and we discount the 5x7's and 8x10's because i know our labs prints look great and i want the clients showing good prints to their family and friends. Might take 20-30 minutes of my time to order some prints and have them drop shipped to the clients home. We use prints as a perk to book with us because nobody is going to order 8x10/'s at $40.00 and 5x7's at $25.00 each anymore. Too many photographers gave it away for too long. For Prints larger than 8x10 we sell board prints and framed prints at our regular prices.

Seems to work for us. Im concentrating on getting them to invest in the albums and larger framed prints and not messing too much with the smaller stuff. When i offer to get the smaller stuff at discounted rates, they look at it as though im not grinding them to death to increase my profit line on my packages. These girls are very smart these days and know where the price points are. So i try to work with them a bit.

For us, in the past 4 years we haven't had a single bride...not one single bride, as for any type of physical proofs. They are all perfectly happy with proofing from our site, and we've gotten no complaints.

and ditto umphotography - We are all about flush-mount, hard-bound albums...we do those for almost every wedding. People love them.