Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 25 Mar 2010 (Thursday) 19:52
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

I am ( hoping Canon CPS has fixed my ) 7D's issues!!

 
PixxByTango
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
166 posts
Joined Apr 2009
Location: Suh Van ugh, Gawja
     
Mar 29, 2010 21:58 |  #256

lungdoc wrote in post #9896815 (external link)
This is starting to go in circles. You stated the mRAWS were good ("stunning" actually). If they are ok and the full size isn't then the difference is only pixel peeping/magnification. If the mRAWS were only a bit better but images with them still clearly a notch below 40D images you are happy with then it's a different story.

Its the task of understanding what is causing the massive degradation in image quality from just moving the subject when this camera is supposed to be the "Sports Action" tool that it clearly is not in this example. However there seems to be a dozen or more people who are simply willing to settle for the inferior quality. Even at 25% of its original size, the image quality is not there. So resizing to the smaller pixel output of the 40D to seemingly compact the image to get to the quality of a 40D at full resolution is not an educated option. Having the larger image with the crisp resolution appearance of the 40D's full size image is the goal with buying a camera that has a higher MP and greater resolution. Anything less is insufficient quality. Period. Maybe no one gets that and simply accepts that having higher resolution is going to deminish the quality, when I want answers to why and I get that I'm an idiot for wanting to know how to fix this... because its just this way and no other.


Finally... the bridge between Racers and Photographers!
Check us out at:
http://www.raceshotsre​source.com (external link)

Just call me Alice...
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
lungdoc
Goldmember
Avatar
2,101 posts
Likes: 1
Joined May 2006
Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada
     
Mar 29, 2010 22:14 |  #257

I do see your point (and frustration) but what I was getting at is that if the resized or smaller output of the 7D is as good as your 40D then how do you know the 40D was really better?

You are contradicting yourself a bit if on one hand mRAWs were "stunning" and on the other images at 25% of original size lack quality - if the latter is the case then the mRAW/resolution issue isn't the main point, mRAWs should be clearly worse than 40D images and you're back to focus problems.

I'd suggest trying to get together with another 7D owner to see if issues can be reproduced or solved.


Mark
My Smugmug (external link) Eos 7D, Canon G1X II, Canon 15-85 IS, Canon 17-85 IS, Sigma 100-300 EX IF HSM, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 85mm 1.8, Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro, Sigma 50-150 2.8, Sigma 1.4 EX DG , Sigma 24-70 F2.8 DG Macro, Canon EF-S 10-22, Canon 430EX,

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
vwpilot
Senior Member
Avatar
592 posts
Joined Nov 2004
Location: Maryland
     
Mar 29, 2010 22:30 |  #258

Did you shoot the 40D with the same lens from the same spot at the same time as that red Porsche shot?

I agree that is not acceptable and not what we're talking about in some cases (though I think some of your other photos are what we're saying).

However, there are a lot of things in play and without seeing the full image at full size its hard to tell what happened. Is some of the grass behind the car sharp? If so, there could be a back focus/or missed focus scenario.

You're also shooting with a long lens across a lot of grass and pavement so you get a lot of heat haze going on. Some of the softness definitely has the heat thing in it, and yes, grass can be just as bad with having heat waves coming off it on a very sunny day. Road Atlanta is bad for that kind of stuff and from that location, you're in a prime spot for it.

That can also sometimes cause focus issues too.

But you may have a bum camera. I struggled with the MkIII for a long time with Canon saying nothing was wrong. Hot, sunny days when trying to track objects was the PRIME place the AF acted up and, at least that Porsche shot, looks a lot like what I struggled with.

But you need to do a lot of specific testing. You need to shoot another body with the same lens at the same time from the same spot under the same conditions and same settings. If things are significantly different, you have an issue and should send both examples to CPS.

If you do not compare cameras that way, there is no way to know for sure what is going on.


Jim Sykes
SportsShooter portfolio (external link)
SpeedArena (external link)
Jim Sykes Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PixxByTango
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
166 posts
Joined Apr 2009
Location: Suh Van ugh, Gawja
     
Mar 29, 2010 22:30 |  #259

lungdoc wrote in post #9896974 (external link)
I do see your point (and frustration) but what I was getting at is that if the resized or smaller output of the 7D is as good as your 40D then how do you know the 40D was really better?

I'd suggest trying to get together with another 7D owner to see if issues can be reproduced or solved.

Kinda my entire original point... to find other 7D owners who had the same issues I have been experiencing and what they did to resolve the issue.

I did compare the resolution outputs of the 7D to the 40D in several different size formats. See my original posts with pics of the boat trailer and the pine tree. I went both directions with those image comparisons... both uprezzing and 100% crops of down rezzed images to see the resolutions.

Certainly the image quality of the mRaw of the 7d is on par with the full resolution image of the 40D. BUT... then why did I waste my money for a new video camera that takes STILL shots? Certainly wasn't for the higher resolution images that I cannot use.

It really does take great video. http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=5-2rAm3sVcY (external link)


Finally... the bridge between Racers and Photographers!
Check us out at:
http://www.raceshotsre​source.com (external link)

Just call me Alice...
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PixxByTango
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
166 posts
Joined Apr 2009
Location: Suh Van ugh, Gawja
     
Mar 29, 2010 22:37 |  #260

vwpilot wrote in post #9897051 (external link)
Did you shoot the 40D with the same lens from the same spot at the same time as that red Porsche shot?

I agree that is not acceptable and not what we're talking about in some cases (though I think some of your other photos are what we're saying).

However, there are a lot of things in play and without seeing the full image at full size its hard to tell what happened. Is some of the grass behind the car sharp? If so, there could be a back focus/or missed focus scenario.

You're also shooting with a long lens across a lot of grass and pavement so you get a lot of heat haze going on. Some of the softness definitely has the heat thing in it, and yes, grass can be just as bad with having heat waves coming off it on a very sunny day. Road Atlanta is bad for that kind of stuff and from that location, you're in a prime spot for it.

That can also sometimes cause focus issues too.

But you may have a bum camera. I struggled with the MkIII for a long time with Canon saying nothing was wrong. Hot, sunny days when trying to track objects was the PRIME place the AF acted up and, at least that Porsche shot, looks a lot like what I struggled with.

But you need to do a lot of specific testing. You need to shoot another body with the same lens at the same time from the same spot under the same conditions and same settings. If things are significantly different, you have an issue and should send both examples to CPS.

If you do not compare cameras that way, there is no way to know for sure what is going on.

I did switch lenses with my GF and the 40D. We did that throughout the day and my comparisons with images are when we typically did the same spot, same settings aiming for the same car on a different lap.

I am wondering if the CF card might have anything to do with it.

Here is access to the original image at high res. Forget the grass... look at bad the image quality in pure space is.

http://www.pixxbytango​.com …X8Hr#823091811_​73QZf-O-LB (external link)


Finally... the bridge between Racers and Photographers!
Check us out at:
http://www.raceshotsre​source.com (external link)

Just call me Alice...
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Brett
Goldmember
Avatar
4,176 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Ohio
     
Mar 29, 2010 22:52 |  #261

Tango, take this post for what you will, as I don't own a 7D and don't shoot sports...but I've read the whole thread. I shot motorsports for over a decade with film SLRs, for what it's worth.


The first thing I'd have to figure out is why you're not getting 8 fps in good light. Something's amiss there, to begin with. That's not normal with the 7D.

Second, the people telling you about AI Focus aren't newbies with rebels and kit lenses; there are some fantastic sports photographers giving you valuable advice.

Third, I could see how Spot AF could be a problem with cars, because it can find a large section of color on a car that has little contrast, and the AF area is so small it has nothing to achieve focus on. I'd not use it at all; it's not meant for sports, and again, experienced sports photographers are telling you this.

Lastly, you may just have a bum camera. It seems there are some "bad" 7Ds out there. I think in many cases the new AF system is overwhelming people who won't take the time to figure out what settings to use for the shooting they do, but you seem to have a grasp of what people are recommending. It's probably time to send it in and see what Canon can do with it. Many are reporting the camera works exactly as they expected after a trip to Canon.



flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
int2str
Goldmember
1,881 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
     
Mar 29, 2010 22:52 |  #262

Your lens is backfocusing as said before.

That aside, what are your C.Fn. Settings set to? (just list the auto-focus ones that are not standard)

I'm repeating myself here, but:
If your 7D doesn't do 8 FPS in AI Servo mode than there is something fundamentally wrong. Fix that first and your life will be much better.

I have the following settings on mine:
C.Fn. III - 1 = Slow
C.Fn. III - 3 = 1: Continuous AF track priority

All others standard...

As for focus, I use AF-point expansion, doesn't matter which AF point - the 7D handles all of them fine.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PixxByTango
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
166 posts
Joined Apr 2009
Location: Suh Van ugh, Gawja
     
Mar 29, 2010 23:28 |  #263

Brett wrote in post #9897179 (external link)
Tango, take this post for what you will, as I don't own a 7D and don't shoot sports...but I've read the whole thread. I shot motorsports for over a decade with film SLRs, for what it's worth.

The first thing I'd have to figure out is why you're not getting 8 fps in good light. Something's amiss there, to begin with. That's not normal with the 7D.

Second, the people telling you about AI Focus aren't newbies with rebels and kit lenses; there are some fantastic sports photographers giving you valuable advice.

Third, I could see how Spot AF could be a problem with cars, because it can find a large section of color on a car that has little contrast, and the AF area is so small it has nothing to achieve focus on. I'd not use it at all; it's not meant for sports, and again, experienced sports photographers are telling you this.

Lastly, you may just have a bum camera. It seems there are some "bad" 7Ds out there. I think in many cases the new AF system is overwhelming people who won't take the time to figure out what settings to use for the shooting they do, but you seem to have a grasp of what people are recommending. It's probably time to send it in and see what Canon can do with it. Many are reporting the camera works exactly as they expected after a trip to Canon.

I know I have a bum camera. I called Canon today and they told me it will be Thursday before they can even sift through all the hate mail to get to mine on the 7D. Once they reach my email with the examples of the images, they can decide to offer me a return shipment label. Funny isn't it..? And I am a CPS Gold Member. So I will wait because B&H is closed too.

I have been following the advice of others in reference to spot versus expansion and trying.

The FPS is an issue I just cannot figure. Thought it might be the card, batteries, settings... phase of the moon...? I adjusted them all, including the moon.

int2str: My settings are the same with the exception for different focal points for orientation and eliminating all points.


Finally... the bridge between Racers and Photographers!
Check us out at:
http://www.raceshotsre​source.com (external link)

Just call me Alice...
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
garys1
Goldmember
Avatar
1,044 posts
Likes: 14
Joined Dec 2009
     
Mar 30, 2010 00:24 |  #264

What kind of CF card are you using. If it's a slow transfer rate card, dumping the data from the buffer will slow down which in turn slows down FPS. I noticed a big difference between a Sandisk Ultra II 15mds and Sandisk Extreme 60mbs UDMA card.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
int2str
Goldmember
1,881 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
     
Mar 30, 2010 00:29 |  #265

garys1 wrote in post #9897635 (external link)
What kind of CF card are you using. If it's a slow transfer rate card, dumping the data from the buffer will slow down which in turn slows down FPS. I noticed a big difference between a Sandisk Ultra II 15mds and Sandisk Extreme 60mbs UDMA card.

For the first 8-10 frames, the CF card makes no difference.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
garys1
Goldmember
Avatar
1,044 posts
Likes: 14
Joined Dec 2009
     
Mar 30, 2010 00:33 |  #266

int2str wrote in post #9897664 (external link)
For the first 8-10 frames, the CF card makes no difference.

The buffer is large enough to hold that much data?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mtran
Member
64 posts
Joined Dec 2009
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
     
Mar 30, 2010 00:34 |  #267

The 7D slows the fps down because of it's metering system. Especially in not so great lighting conditions.. or so I've heard.


GEAR Canon 7D | Canon 40D | Canon 430EX II | Canon 10-22 f3.5-4.5 | Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 EX DC Macro | Canon 50mm f1.8 II | Lowepro Flipside 400AW | Crumpler 6MDH | Slik Sprint Pro II GM Tripod

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
int2str
Goldmember
1,881 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
     
Mar 30, 2010 00:34 |  #268

yes




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ckckevin
Goldmember
Avatar
1,439 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Jul 2009
Location: Bay Area
     
Mar 30, 2010 01:32 |  #269

glad u get some good shots


Kevin life= learning
500D, Canon 10-22mm, Tamron 17-50mm 2.8, Canon 60 macro, Canon 85mm 1.8, Sigma 8mm 3.5, Sigma 30mm 1.4, Sigma 50-150mm 2.8, Kenko SP300 1.4x, efs extension tubes, 580EX, and lens that i don't like

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Simon ­ Harrison
"Bag Snapper"
3,053 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Feb 2005
Location: Ingleby Barwick, Teesside
     
Mar 30, 2010 04:14 |  #270

Tango,

I'm at work just now, but when I get home I'll post all of the custom AF settings that I am currently using for the 7D. This may be of no more than academic interest, but you'll have it anyway.

I think your comment about the mRAW 7D files looking 'stunning' is significant. Interestingly enough, there was a debate going on over on FM in relation to the mk IV about the exact same thing.

So where does this leave us? I think you have to send the camera back to Canon for them to have a look at. That way you can eliminate a fault with the camera. There are some duff units out there, so there is a chance that you have one. If it comes back as being within tolerance, then you may well need to micro adjust your lenses or take a look at your technique. Alternatively, you cut your losses and replace the 7D with something else, whatever that may be.

VWPilot makes a good point about heat haze. Even in the UK I've had shots ruined by what he describes. I would however expect this to show at least in part with your 40D as well - if your shooting under the same conditions.

Finally, I want to say something about my early experiences with my 7D. After the first event I used it for, I was horrified by the results. They were truely awful. In my case, it was all down to how I had the camera set up - it took me by surprise how long I had to mess around to get it how I wanted it - and my technique - bear in mind I had been shooting motorsport for 10+ years when I got the 7D, it is that demanding of your technique. I would say I shot a good 3 or 4 events before I was happy with the results from the camera. The image files also require slightly different processing to my other cameras to bring the best out of them.

Like I said, you may have a duff unit, and I think you need to resolve this one way or another before going any further.

Cheers,

Simon


Simon

http://www.flickr.com/​photos/srhmoto/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

64,703 views & 0 likes for this thread
I am ( hoping Canon CPS has fixed my ) 7D's issues!!
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Nita66
771 guests, 192 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.