Div II Basketball.. first time C+C requested

Okay, so this is my first effort at shooting basketball.. I've done some football, but this is the first attempt at basketball...

I found it very challenging to watch the game through the viewfinder... it gives you such a narrow field of view that you have to read the eyes/mind of the player with the ball to have an idea where he is going with it next. You get no benefit from seeing the other player pop open on the opposite side of the court... anyway.

I put my 580EX II on a 9 ft stand about 20 ft from the corner of the baseline and proceeded to try out several positions around the court. Please let me know how I can improve these..

Apertures were between 2.8 and 4.0
ISO was typically around 1250
SS was usually 250 and some at 400

1.

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Some of the pics look a little blurry. I like to shoot at 1/800 but many on this board will shoot at 1/640 to stop the action. Either way, I'd up the shutter speed a bit.

chartist10 wrote in post #11843068
Some of the pics look a little blurry. I like to shoot at 1/800 but many on this board will shoot at 1/640 to stop the action. Either way, I'd up the shutter speed a bit.

if you shoot that fast doesn't that render the flash useless? Sorry new to this and I am just trying to workout a scenario where I can get some really nice Bball shots!

Thanks in advance!

1,2,3,5,6 and 8 are from the back...not good. Without faces and expressions, images are a LOT les compelling.

4 is boring - the guy is standing there: so what? He's not even doing anything interesting. 7 is OK, but no ball. All are a bit soft.

Why is your ISO so high? Normally when shooting with artificial light indoors, I won't let ISO's go much higher than 640 and usually top out at 400. Use your flash to overwhelm the ambient light. What were your flash settings?

On most of the images, it looks like your AF has grabbed something in the background Vs. the players. For example, on number 3, the fans almost look in focus; #6 the ref and the goal stanchion are sharp; #7 the ref is sharper.

Hi Sam:

You got a few really good action shots there, problem is that the shutter speed was too low to render them sharp. For HS, the standard recipe is 1/640 on the shutter, a lens open to f/2 and about 2500 ISO.

Might even have to go to 1/800 for the 'big boys.'

dave

dmwierz wrote in post #11843284
1,2,3,5,6 and 8 are from the back...not good. Without faces and expressions, images are a LOT les compelling.

4 is boring - the guy is standing there: so what? He's not even doing anything interesting. 7 is OK, but no ball. All are a bit soft.

Why is your ISO so high? Normally when shooting with artificial light indoors, I won't let ISO's go much higher than 640 and usually top out at 400. Use your flash to overwhelm the ambient light. What were your flash settings?

On most of the images, it looks like your AF has grabbed something in the background Vs. the players. For example, on number 3, the fans almost look in focus; #6 the ref and the goal stanchion are sharp; #7 the ref is sharper.

Thanks for your comments...

yah, faces are important I was just having a tough time getting them down under the goal... you have to shoot opposite side of the court to get faces and my 24-70 just wasn't getting there...

I had my 580 II on 1/2 power (to help with recycle time)

I tought I was getting some sharp images on the LCD so I kept lowering the ISO to reduce noise, thinking why run it high if I don't have to. Well, it looks like I need to have it higher to support the higher SS, but what about the the sync speed of 1/250... won't I get all sorts of weird light shooting faster than that?

As for the AF... I tried AI SERVO, but didn't have too much luck with that (never have) So I went back to AF ONE SHOT and Center Point AF Selection... I know this isn't the recommended setting for action, but haven't had any luck with the AI SERVO.. thoughts?

btw.. I included #4 because it seemed like a fortunate light on the wall that created an interesting "halo" on the player... I tried to stay away from shooting while they weren't playing...

snyderman wrote in post #11843305
Hi Sam:

You got a few really good action shots there, problem is that the shutter speed was too low to render them sharp. For HS, the standard recipe is 1/640 on the shutter, a lens open to f/2 and about 2500 ISO.

Might even have to go to 1/800 for the 'big boys.'

dave

Thanks for the 'recipe'... I will try this out.

Since you can't up the shutter speed and still use the speedlite...the main problem is the pictures are out of focus and almost all of them are the back-sides of players.

In #3 and #4 the shutter speed says 1/400 so the flash didn't fire on those two yet you got decent exposure, you could take advantage of the 7D you're using and leave the flash in your bag, up the ISO and shoot at 1/640 or 1/800 even.. just a little noise reduction in post.

Why were your setting jumping around? Find the right setting and put it into manual mode.

I'm new to this as well, but I'm getting pretty good luck with my 40D with an 85 f1.8 lens. I set my camera to ISO 1600 shutter speed to 500 and f1.8 - 2.8 with no flash. Although I'm shooting much younger kids, I'm still getting enough light to get some good shots. Your 7D should be able to go much higher on ISO to make up for more shutter speeds!

Also I'm not seeing much difference if any between your shots 3 and 4 and the others if the flash did not fire! I would leave the flash at home! If your camera jumped up to ss of 400 when your flash didn't fire from 250 when the flash fired. Your camera is telling you, you can shoot at a faster shutter speed with the available light. You don't need the flash. It's slowing you down.

I also don't get what your saying about not getting faces in your shots and can only get them from the other end of the gym. True there will be times where the guys are driving to the basket from the same side as you and you can't get their face. You just have to wait till they are on the other side of the basket. It looks like you are near the far side of the court. Can you sit closer to the basket? This might help by having the players run towards you instead of running sideways to you.

Also keep at the AI Servo!!! Try and lock on your target early and keep either the shutter half pressed or the back button pressed the whole time so the camera can track with the players. You won't have any luck with one shot focus. By the time you press the shutter the player has moved past your focus spot.

Keep at it!!!

Bob

DHMN wrote in post #11844505
Since you can't up the shutter speed and still use the speedlite...the main problem is the pictures are out of focus and almost all of them are the back-sides of players.

In #3 and #4 the shutter speed says 1/400 so the flash didn't fire on those two yet you got decent exposure, you could take advantage of the 7D you're using and leave the flash in your bag, up the ISO and shoot at 1/640 or 1/800 even.. just a little noise reduction in post.

bobr99 wrote in post #11844938
Why were your setting jumping around? Find the right setting and put it into manual mode.

I was shooting in manual... that is all I shoot in anymore. I was trying some different settings and I am not very accustomed to the OCF so I bumped past the sync speed without thinking about it. Although if you look at the images you can see evidence of the flash on the back of the players legs in #3 and on the side of the players faces #4... that I don't understand.

bobr99 wrote in post #11844938
I'm new to this as well, but I'm getting pretty good luck with my 40D with an 85 f1.8 lens. I set my camera to ISO 1600 shutter speed to 500 and f1.8 - 2.8 with no flash. Although I'm shooting much younger kids, I'm still getting enough light to get some good shots. Your 7D should be able to go much higher on ISO to make up for more shutter speeds!

You are right about the capabilites of the 7D in available light, but I am trying to get the whole OCF thing down as i am practicing for a large AAU tournament in a couple months- the oganizers want promotional images of the players in their tournament and i just imagined that all other things equal, I could get better images with strobes.

bobr99 wrote in post #11844938
I also don't get what your saying about not getting faces in your shots and can only get them from the other end of the gym. True there will be times where the guys are driving to the basket from the same side as you and you can't get their face. You just have to wait till they are on the other side of the basket. It looks like you are near the far side of the court. Can you sit closer to the basket? This might help by having the players run towards you instead of running sideways to you.

I am more of less saying the same thing your did... just complaining outloud about the difficulty of picking a spot on the floor to shoot from because it seemed the action was always moving away from me no matter where I went.

bobr99 wrote in post #11844938
Also keep at the AI Servo!!! Try and lock on your target early and keep either the shutter half pressed or the back button pressed the whole time so the camera can track with the players. You won't have any luck with one shot focus. By the time you press the shutter the player has moved past your focus spot.

Keep at it!!!

Bob

when you lock on with AI SERVO, do you get an indication from the camera? I don't and I've had the worst luck with AI SERVO in the past... What AF Selection do you use in conjuction?


Thanks for your comments.

You will not get a beep in AI servo but I think you get the green circle with it (but I'm not sure about that). I can hear/feel the auto focus motor track with the players. Might not in be able to hear it in a loud gym.

Bob

bobr99 wrote in post #11846833
You will not get a beep in AI servo but I think you get the green circle with it (but I'm not sure about that). I can hear/feel the auto focus motor track with the players. Might not in be able to hear it in a loud gym.

Bob

thanks for the info... I got to looking around and found this http://www.shutterfrea​ks.com/Tips/CanonAISer​vo.html

it's a good explanation of AI Servo on the 1 Series cameras, but it should be similar on my 7D..

even better.. I just found this http://www.garyluhm.ne​t/bio/tips_0310.html really nice explanation.. you'll have to "translate" to sports shooting as it is focused (no pun intended) on Birding..

RazorbackSam wrote in post #11843469
Thanks for your comments...

yah, faces are important I was just having a tough time getting them down under the goal... you have to shoot opposite side of the court to get faces and my 24-70 just wasn't getting there...

I had my 580 II on 1/2 power (to help with recycle time)

I tought I was getting some sharp images on the LCD so I kept lowering the ISO to reduce noise, thinking why run it high if I don't have to. Well, it looks like I need to have it higher to support the higher SS, but what about the the sync speed of 1/250... won't I get all sorts of weird light shooting faster than that?

As for the AF... I tried AI SERVO, but didn't have too much luck with that (never have) So I went back to AF ONE SHOT and Center Point AF Selection... I know this isn't the recommended setting for action, but haven't had any luck with the AI SERVO.. thoughts?

btw.. I included #4 because it seemed like a fortunate light on the wall that created an interesting "halo" on the player... I tried to stay away from shooting while they weren't playing...

Sam, I think it would help if you looked around the board for discussions on how to shoot indoor sports with flash and also if you understood the AF modes of your camera.

Nope, the pros shooting NBA with strobes are at 1/250s and they stop the action all day/night long. The flash duration is stopping the action, not the shutter. That's why you need to ensure your flash is powerful enough to overpower ambient light.

This is absolutely, positively incorrect. AI Servo is the only way to focus effectively on moving objects. One Shot is meant for stationary subjects only, or when you don't need to track moving things. If you aren't having "much luck" with AI Servo, you need to learn how to properly use it. Again, there are a ton of discussions about the topic on this board.

Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean you needed to be on the left side of the endline in order to get faces? Really? In reality, most players are right-hand dominant and as the result, they favor movement from the left to the right (as viewed from the endline looking out onto the court) so they can lay-up or dunk with their dominant hand, so where you were was fine. And faces are more than "important" - they are essential to making quality sports images.

Do what dmwierz says. He knows.

Zivnuska wrote in post #11847021
Do what dmwierz says. He knows.

I very much agree with this statement... I am currently looking into developing my techniques with AI Servo... and as far as the 1/250 SS with strobes, after reading further on this it makes TOTAL sense! Can't wait to get back to the gym and try some things!

Thanks to EVERYONE for all your comments and suggestions!