Help with 'Flash' / Results

Well I'm pretty new at this so hopefully you folks can bear with me!

I just bought my G-12 and received it about two weeks ago. I have been reading the manual and even bought a book (Canon PowerShot G12: From Snapshots to Great Shots) to try and learn more about correct ways of using the camera, settings, modes etc.

So I have just been sitting in my living room and taking random shots at different settings etc. An awful lot of these photos come out decent using the Program Mode, setting the AF Frame to "FlexiZone and stuff like that.

Where my problem comes is that last night I put the camera on Auto and took some shots where the flash fired. The pictures come out very yellow. WTH? I even get the camera setting the shutter speed at 1/20 with the auto flash enabled. Why would that happen? With old school cameras I've had in the past they usually set the shutter speed at 1/60 when the flash was enabled.

Would really appreciate if anybody who can give me some pointers on how to check for proper settings when using the flash or maaybe what those settingsd should bhe.

Here are a couple of examples:

Auto/1/20/ ISO 400/ F2.8

Not sure why your camera is setting the shutter to 1/20th in Auto mode with flash. It's most likely yellow, because the camera is using Flash White Balance, and with 1/20th second shutter speed, that's letting a lot of ambient light (most likely, in your case, Tungsten based) into the exposure.

I am not familiar with that camera, so I can't offer any advice there, but just wanted to provide some insight as to why the color shift is there. If you want less color shift when using flash, there are a couple options, make the shutter faster, so less ambient light is in the shot, or use some kind of gel over your flash, to change the flash to the color temperature of the ambient light (generally, for Tungsten light, you want to use a CTO - color temperature orange gel), and change your WB to Tungsten (since you matched the flash to tungsten).

Hopefully, others with this camera can chime in on why it chooses the settings it is choosing.

I was just going to say press the Function/Set button on the back and play with the preset lighting effects (i.e. Auto White Balance (AWB), sunlight, tungsten, fluorescent, etc. to get the lighting you're looking for.

I think that in a mixed lighting situation like that you are asking too much of your camera on auto settings. It's trying to expose for the ambient light and fill it with the flash so you end up with lots of "yellow" tungsten light. Put the camera in TV mode, set it at 1/60 and try some shots (set a reasonable iso like 400). The light temp will then be balanced.

you spent plenty of $'s on a camera that allows for lots of control over exposure you might as well honor that expense and use it that way. In the long run I think you will be much happier.

When using Auto mode all bets are off as to what settings the camera will use...it may try to use one of the "Scene Modes" it thinks is appropriate, or not.

As noted, the yellowness is coming from the ambient incandescent light...and frankly, shots of relatively dim interiors using the tiny on-camera flash are never going to come out all that great - you would get far better results with a more powerful external flash bounced off a neutral colored ceiling etc.

Thanks for the replies.

Must have some serious terrible light causing this yellow affect whenever the flash fires. Even using Tv Mode at 1/60; 400 ISO still gives off a yellow tinge although it's a little better. Turn off the flash and things look a lot better after messing with the settings to be able to take a shot. I even tried adjusting the Whie Balance to Tungsten and then Fluorescent and the results aren't much better if any at all. Just doesn't seem right but... Hmph. Gonna mess around more tomorrow and tomorrow night.

In the meantime, any other ideas or suggestions are sure welcome.

To get really good colour without flash, use custom white balance. Otherwise, you'll need a fairly powerful flash to overcome the ambient tungsten light.

The shutter speed makes no difference to the flash part of the exposure, only the continuious light; the flash only lasts (depending on the flash unit) somewhere between 1/2000th and 1/10,000th of a second. After that you're just capturing ambient light.

Id say your shutter speed is still too low, and letting too much ambient light in. Try a much faster one like 1/200th to get rid of the ambient light completely.

I've heard the internal flash can sync up to 1/2000th, so maybe even give that a go.

If you actuality want the ambient light in there, to fill shadows etc, i'd suggest you shoot RAW and correct the white balance on your PC...

Though it's worth noting that if you have areas of different coloured light; pools of yellow around the lamps and a big cone of white light coming out of the flash you're never going to get it to all match properly...

You *could* try putting something orange and see-through in front of the flash (sweet wrapper perhaps?) to balance it with the ambient light, then set WB for that, but it'll be a bit hit-and-miss...

You can buy flash colour modifiers for speedlites for this purpose:
http://www.warehouseex​press.com …er-set-for-sb800/p1012227

cyberon wrote in post #11866120
To get really good colour without flash, use custom white balance. Otherwise, you'll need a fairly powerful flash to overcome the ambient tungsten light.

RMH wrote in post #11866161
The shutter speed makes no difference to the flash part of the exposure, only the continuious light; the flash only lasts (depending on the flash unit) somewhere between 1/2000th and 1/10,000th of a second. After that you're just capturing ambient light.

Id say your shutter speed is still too low, and letting too much ambient light in. Try a much faster one like 1/200th to get rid of the ambient light completely.

I've heard the internal flash can sync up to 1/2000th, so maybe even give that a go.

If you actuality want the ambient light in there, to fill shadows etc, i'd suggest you shoot RAW and correct the white balance on your PC...

Though it's worth noting that if you have areas of different coloured light; pools of yellow around the lamps and a big cone of white light coming out of the flash you're never going to get it to all match properly...

You *could* try putting something orange and see-through in front of the flash (sweet wrapper perhaps?) to balance it with the ambient light, then set WB for that, but it'll be a bit hit-and-miss...

You can buy flash colour modifiers for speedlites for this purpose:
http://www.warehouseex​press.com …er-set-for-sb800/p1012227

Thanks to both of yo for the input.

I think I'm getting too consumed with this problem right now but will try these suggestions. Not sure I'm ready (or need) to go over the edge and buy a more powerful flash as I noticed this problem only inside my house in these specific light conditions while going through the leaning process with my new camera. Still I will try your suggestions and see what comes of it. Thank you very much.

RMH wrote in post #11866161
Id say your shutter speed is still too low, and letting too much ambient light in. Try a much faster one like 1/200th to get rid of the ambient light completely.

Took a few shots just now using 1/250 and it made a big difference. Not perfect but a huge improvement reducing the amount of ambient light coming into the camera and thereby reducing the ugly yellow tinge. I'll keep experimenting. Thanks again for the tips.

Full Auto mode is acting as it is supposed to (although I don't agree with the algorithm). Change to Program mode and do not use the slow speed sync option for flash. Put the flash on "auto" to, sort of, simulate full Auto mode.

Setting the shutter to 1/200th or 1/250th, is killing all the ambient light, thus providing a color balanced result, as many have stated.

Generally though, killing all ambient, if you actually have a background, is kind of a sign of a person using a point and shoot camera. If you look at P&S pictures of large rooms in a house, generally, if flash was used, the closest part of the picture will be exposed properly, but the background, or rest of the room, suffers from light fall off (flash is not powerful enough), and either looks dim, or completely black. If you look at pictures where the entire room is well lit (sometimes the background is 1 or 2 stops underexposed), then this is generally a sign of someone using ambient light only (no flash), or someone using flash that is gelled to match ambient light, and then allowing some ambient light into the picture (read, slower shutter speed).

For instance, if I was wanting to have a picture of a couple people in a room, but wanted the feel for the room to be included in the picture, this is generally the way I would go about doing that, keeping in mind, I'm using an SLR, and a dedicated flash:

* Set camera to Manual mode, flash to E-TTL, put a CTO gel on the flash.
* Set my working Aperture, maybe f/4 or f/5.6, depending on how much of the subject I want in focus.
* Take a meter reading (press shutter half way) to see where the ambient light is, as far as exposure.
* I then adjust shutter speed and ISO, to try and expose the ambient light for maybe -1 or -2 stops (so the meter will show a bar to the left of the -0- mark).
* I generally don't like to go below 1/30th on shutter speed, even with rear curtain sync, because if anything in the background is moving, it will be blurry, unless that is a desired effect, and sometimes you'll get subject ghosting.
* Now, with the flash on E-TTL, I'll try and bounce flash off the ceiling, a wall, ideally behind me, and take the picture.

If your room is fairly evenly lit, you can keep these settings, and never adjust anything again. E-TTL will usually take care of everything for you...

You could probably get some little stick on gels for your on camera flash, if you wanted to play around with that, it can be quite fun, actually, and would allow you to use slower shutter speeds...

Have fun!

geogecko wrote in post #11869504
Setting the shutter to 1/200th or 1/250th, is killing all the ambient light, thus providing a color balanced result, as many have stated.

Generally though, killing all ambient, if you actually have a background, is kind of a sign of a person using a point and shoot camera. If you look at P&S pictures of large rooms in a house, generally, if flash was used, the closest part of the picture will be exposed properly, but the background, or rest of the room, suffers from light fall off (flash is not powerful enough), and either looks dim, or completely black. If you look at pictures where the entire room is well lit (sometimes the background is 1 or 2 stops underexposed), then this is generally a sign of someone using ambient light only (no flash), or someone using flash that is gelled to match ambient light, and then allowing some ambient light into the picture (read, slower shutter speed).

For instance, if I was wanting to have a picture of a couple people in a room, but wanted the feel for the room to be included in the picture, this is generally the way I would go about doing that, keeping in mind, I'm using an SLR, and a dedicated flash:

* Set camera to Manual mode, flash to E-TTL, put a CTO gel on the flash.
* Set my working Aperture, maybe f/4 or f/5.6, depending on how much of the subject I want in focus.
* Take a meter reading (press shutter half way) to see where the ambient light is, as far as exposure.
* I then adjust shutter speed and ISO, to try and expose the ambient light for maybe -1 or -2 stops (so the meter will show a bar to the left of the -0- mark).
* I generally don't like to go below 1/30th on shutter speed, even with rear curtain sync, because if anything in the background is moving, it will be blurry, unless that is a desired effect, and sometimes you'll get subject ghosting.
* Now, with the flash on E-TTL, I'll try and bounce flash off the ceiling, a wall, ideally behind me, and take the picture.

If your room is fairly evenly lit, you can keep these settings, and never adjust anything again. E-TTL will usually take care of everything for you...

You could probably get some little stick on gels for your on camera flash, if you wanted to play around with that, it can be quite fun, actually, and would allow you to use slower shutter speeds...

Have fun!

Thanks for the insight. As I mentioned I am pretty new to all this and have just had my G-12 for a week or two. Took some photos outside today and they were very nice (to me). Used all sorts of settings and modes to mess around. Not going to take long to figure out the settings but the nuances of photography is obviously another story.

Have a lot to learn about this ambient lighting subject but I'll keep plugging away on it.

Again thank you for the information!

It sounds complicated, but once you start playing around, you'll figure it out. Helps to read some good books too, when you get a chance. The camera manual only gets you so far. Bryan Peterson (Understanding Exposure) has some good books, as well as David Ziser, and Neil has some great online resources (and a good book too).

When you're using flash with room light, the slower the shutter speed, more room light allowed into the image. In your case, it look like tungsten, which is yellowish. If you want NO room light (ambient light) to be in your image, up the shutter speed. NOW with that said, if you DO up the shutter speed, the yellow will lessen BUT the room will be lit solely with your flash, which will probably make your image look like a cheap Point and Shot and maybe darker. Now, there's nothing wrong with mixed lighting when done right. Frankly, it can look more natural to me.

For the sake of testing, take your camera off of manual, and onto Shutter Priority. Take one photo with a long shutter speed (1/15), and another with a higher shutter speed (1/125) (In Shutter Priority, the aperture will be adjusted automatically.) Look at the difference in the ambient lighting in the two.