What to Expect as 2nd Shooter

Hey guys,,

I'm about to be a second shooter for my 2nd wedding(3rd event). All in all this will only be my third time photographing weddings/events.

My question is what is my employer expecting and what should i expect?

The first event my pictures were awful, it was my first time working with a flash, and the flash i was using was from 1998 off some old film camera. Composition was spot on and so were all my no-flash pictures, but out of about 600 only about 30 were customer worthy.

The second event I used a 430ex and had a blast. My pictures came out as planned, and out of 1500 almost 500 were customer worthy.

I knew i would need to work for free for a couple of events, but i was wondering your opinions on at what point is it ok to start to push a little for money, and what type of payment to expect as a starting second shooter. And of course, just how good do the pictures need to be.

I'm in Israel so I'm sure prices are a little different, but it would still be nice to have an idea. I've posted a link with a few random pictures from the wedding but i haven't added very many. The pictures haven't been through any post processing i just wanted to have a few examples.
http://www.flickr.com …3/sets/72157626​093444780/

Thanks
Oren

I use second shooters or assistants quite often. I never expect them to work for free and I pay them according to their experience. I supply all equipment for them to use and they are allowed to take copies of what they shot for the purposes of self promotion but the copyright stays with me (we have a signed agreement).

For me the second shooter is more about making sure lights are in place, a second set of eyes on the poses and shooting from a second angle when necessary. If you want to call them a gopher then they would certainly do alot of that. In a typical wedding they would have the chance at shooting alot. In one of my typical commercial jobs they wouldn't be shooting quite so much, it is dependent on the subject matter and the space we have.

I don't know what the pay rates are in Israel but I don't think that anyone should work for nothing. You have to determine your self worth.

My question is what is my employer expecting and what should i expect?

Wouldn't this be something to discuss with the person you are 2nd shooting for?

Just seems pretty obvious you should be discussing this with that individual..

What ever you do, don't approach them with - they said this, or I read that, on this blog it was said I should make $x for x work. Use your thoughts, words and ideas.

I looked at your Flickr stream and there really isn't enough there for me to judge other than to say they seem rather inconsistent. I'm sure you have a bunch more you just haven't put up though, so I'll reserve judgement.

What to expect as a second shooter financially and production wise? That's really between you and the primary. I've never second shot a wedding for free so that concept is foreign to me, but I can afford not to take those types of gigs. They pick me after checking out my portfolio and liking what they see so I expect to get paid for the work. However I can tell you that before I commit to any job, wedding or not, I agree on the price and deliverables. There's no way in hell I will go into any job otherwise. Price for second shooting weddings varies in range ($250-$500, for example in my area), but I usually deliver unedited RAW files to the primary either on the spot, via DVD that I burn later, or even giving them my cards and having them send them back to me once they are done copying.

When I second shoot, I go in and shoot the guys prep/formals while the main shoots the girls. For the rest of the day we're together-ish so I'll back her up on critical moments and get angles she can't get of the less important stuff. Sometimes I'll just goof off, or find a corner to hide in if it's a boring wedding...ie a dead dance floor. Other times we'll leap frog the formals...she'll do a few while I think, I'll do a few while she thinks...or I'll do a couple great ones then walk away.

It's not really rocket science.

Thanks for all the input so far.

Like I said, I am working with a friend and agreed to no payment for now until my pictures are up to par with his. For the two events I attended with him he still had another photographer with him, which i suppose made me the THIRD shooter haha..

I have spoken with him and he told me he simply hopes that I will be working for him full-time by the summer and wants me to be extra sharp so that by then I can be shooting my own weddings.

As far as during the events, he has been very helpful with me and so has his staff. Until know he pretty much has told me to be a spontaneous shooter,but also left me for make up and getting dressed with the bride.

Until now he says he is very impressed. I have a wedding with him tonight and had "tchina" earlier this week. According to the tchina pictures he believes we will start full payment after tonights event, he just wants to see a few more pictures. I'll be sure to upload more than 5 or 6 pictures from tonights event.

Again, thanks for all the input.

One more question, weddings here in Israel aren't all in one day, usually over a few days to a week. Should i be expecting hourly pay? paid per event? paid per session (i.e, ceremony one day, tchina one day, wedding last day)?

Pay (what is expected, minimum, range, industry standard) is something that varies with too many factors to list. But you and your friend (who seems very supportive) need to agree to it at some point, preferably in the beginning.

This is how I started out. I met a total stranger via trading gear and he invited me to take up wedding photography. I second shot for him for free a few times and had a blast and learnt so much. He does insist on paying me now, and I do as well when he second shoots for me, but we just like hanging out, doing what we love - because we work well as a team.

A good mentor trumps getting paid. But one still needs to be fed. So do what you must.

Depends on the photographer...I can't hire second shooters who are not on par with me for quality anymore.