Advice needed:How do YOU process RAW in DPP?

I just recently and reluctantly began to shoot almost exclusively with RAW .I should say initially reluctant! I have discovered the true power of RAW and am sold and a new convert just like that. As I begin to shoot more and more, my drives are filling up faster then Titanic taking on water. Faster then I can seem to process them anyhow, which is a good thing IMO. I guess I am not really sure what "steps" to take to get it to a processed final JPEG for upload or print. While I realize the process to get to web and print are different and good topic for different post my main question is just to a JPEG as final product. I use DPP as the RAW processor. After making the adjustments in RAW I would like to know how to "save" it. In other words, how do I rename this file so I can find it later on in RAW format? I am confused by "save"and "save as" commands. While it seems rudimentary to most, it seems to be confusing me. Also, how do you name your files? I tend to shoot a lot of morning fog-type photos and have been putting them in one big folder on an external drive. The obvious problem is trying to find them later on. If I were shooting much less, it would be easy but not so with so much data.
Once saved as RAW, then convert to TIFF for more editing then to Jpeg for final product? Seems to be so many steps.
One last thing.On DPP, there is a tab next to the RAW tab for jpeg processing where you can adjust the histogram and RGB values if needed. What is the purpose of this if you convert to JPEG using "save and convert" function. Does it convert to JPEG with those values or does it use the RAW values? I am confused. Hopefully you all can begin to steer me back into clearer waters! Thanks

I use DPP as Raw converter somtimes. I do anything I can do in DPP, then export (save or save as will only save the edits as metadata to the CR2 file!).
I export to either 8bpc or 16bpc tif, depending on what further work needs to be done in PS.

16bpc if (local) color / luminance edits need to be done in PS, 8bpc if I only need to do clone / heal for instance.

The Raw and RGB tab offer similar adjustments and are additive.

File naming: RHD_YYYYMMDD_Event_000​1.CR2

(My initials, date, event, sequence. extension)

This filename gets set when copied from the CF card and won't change after that.

O.k., a bunch of questions. Let's take them one at a time.
1. 'Save' means 'insert a list of the present slider positions into the file's metadata section where it will have priority over the list put there by the camera, but in no way change the image data section'.
2. 'Save as' means 'make a copy of the RAW and then do no. 1 to it.
3. DPP has a rename tool. I don't rename files (well I do, I leave my 40D files as _MG_xxxx and change the 5D2 files to make them 5D2_xxxx., but that doesn't count). Most people don't attach descriptive names to individual files but rather use a hierarchical folder structure to quickly locate groups of shots. (I have a three tiered system of folders for year > month > yy-mm-dd + text. Another possibility might be something like Trips > Paris > Left Bank.) Or you can invest in Lightroom or other cataloging software that will allow you to attach searchable keywords to images.
4."Once saved as RAW, then convert to TIFF for more editing then to Jpeg for final product?" Yes, that is often the workflow if you use DPP and find it inadequate for all your editing. If you do find you can do all you want to do in DPP, you can do 'Save' and only convert to a jpg when you have a specific need for one (and delete it afterwards.) Most people who have more full-featured converters discover that they need to make tifs for secondary editing much less. They save only the RAW and the editing parameters and generate conversions when needed.
5. When you edit a RAW both tabs are operative but in the DPP manual Canon advises using only the curve editor on the RGB tab since the other functions are redundant and their equivalents on the RAW tab are better suited to RAW processing . For editing jpgs the second tab is all you have.

A couple points:

First, you will get some organizational tools if you use ZoomBrowser to download images and store them in places that will give you a "sensible" folder organization as well as rename your Raw files to something that works for you. There are other apps out there that will do this as well, but ZoomBrowser does come with the Canon software.

Second, you don't say what additional software you may use -- if you do have a "pixel editing" app such as Photoshop/Elements, then that is where the step to convert to a tiff comes in -- you get a high quality uncompressed image to edit. For simply saving the edits for further use in DPP bet keeping the Raw data intact, Save is fine. You don't need Save As unless, like Elie mentions, you want a copy of the Raw file with edits you've done as well as the original without the edits, but that is really not something I'd do in any normal workflow -- one Raw file can be rendered in various ways -- but for times when you really want qick access to a special "version" (say a B&W version as well as a color version) and want them both to remain Raw files, well, sure -- you will need to rename one in the Save As box.

For a "final output" for the Web that's going to be the same whether you shoot Raw or jpeg -- if you want to put something out for the Web then Convert and Save using the Resize option to make the image Web-size works the same, except if you are doing this with a jpeg you typically do not want to overwrite the original!

For print, the process would be the same if you wanted to size the image to "fit" a print size or, if you just want to Convert and Save the edits, well, that would just be like saving a jpeg using Save As in another app but, again, you don't want to overwrite the original if shooting jpegs (with Raw you can't overwrite the original).

As to the RGB tab, a couple notes (in addition to what Elie brings out):

First, I play with the RGB tab if I want to fine-tune colors individually in a way that setting the White Balance and Color tone/hue in the Raw tab doesn't satisfy me.

Another thing there is that if you do resize an image for the Web or for a print then the RGB tab gives you the ability to do "output sharpening" on the resized image. Doing this to a jpeg is not the "best" way of doing this since you are saving the jpeg twice -- it would be best doinng the Convert and Save to a tiff, doing the sharpening in the RGB tab, then doing the Convert and Save as a jpeg. That sound like work, but otherwise you'd go to an app like Photoshop to do output sharpening and that would be more complicated!

Before I got lightroom I used DPP and my basic process was:

- I'd process a RAW file and "save" as the original file name. If I processed it as a black and white or something strange where I wanted to save the original, I'd save using "save as" and then add "bw" or something else to the end of the file name, so that it would remain right next to the original in the folder, and therefore easy to find.

- when ready to print, I'd "Convert and save," selecting to save it as jpeg and not change the file name. This does not overwrite the RAW file, and not changing the name again kept it right next to the old RAW file, which I could still easily access.

I don't regret the jump to lightroom, though, I have to say!

Oh, by the way, I should add that I have everything saved in folders by shot date, and the naming system is also correlated with shot date.

please watch video how to use DPP from Canon USA
http://www.usa.canon.c​om …ArticleAct&arti​cleID=1228
:p

Hey everyone and thanks for your input! I use DPP and will then do more local edits on PSE3 if needed like cloning and curves.That makes sense about "save" versus "save as". So, if I "save" a RAW after editing it and I want to keep it as my final product, I then use "save" and it will overwrite what the camera captured and when in the future i file it away say, on another backup drive and want to look/re-edit in the future, it will be saved as that image? That would seem to make sense. I guess I just did not know whether you could really truly "save" an edited RAW.I do understand the "save as" though to make a copy of a BW/Sepia,etc edited image.
As for naming I have been creating a main folder such as "foggy mornings" and then dumping all the RAW into them of foggy mornings. Then after editing I save the Tiff/Jpeg to a "foggy morning-edited" sub folder. It just gets overwhelming with trying to move so many images all over the place. The whole organizing by date thing just doesn't seem to be very helpful unless you do weddings and events, as it seems you will never find your photos for later useage unless something descriptive is used.
One final question/thought while I am thinking of it. Where does everyone save or keep their "best images" from all of their travels and shoots? Do you keep them separate in their own "event" folder or do you create a copy and keep a backup in a "best of" folder?

I'd say that at some point your image organization is going to end up a mess!

One thing you can consider: DPP has a Collections function. So, you can keep your shoots filed by the date of the shoots but at the same time have a collection for, say, "foggy morning" or "family" but at the same time being able to access them thought a specific occasion/date. As for "best" photos you can use the DPP Check mark and Ratings tools -- a lot of people use tools like this.

It should be said, though, that DPP is really not a good organizational tool. A big tool is keywords, and although DPP itself does not as far as I know allow you to add or modify keywords, ZoomBrowser does. ZoomBrowser also gives you the ability to Search by keyword, so you may want to use that utility in ZoomBrowser. Why, you may ask? Because keywords can be visible to other apps. Some other metadata can be as well, such as the "Author" field that the camera can write in (But DPP/ZoomBrowser can't) but things like DPP ratings and collections are "invisible" to other apps.

So, for now I'd use ZoomBrowser in conjunction with DPP so you will get some things on board for other applications as well as your own personal access. In time, especially as your library grows, you will want to consider other organizational tools. In the meantime, get the most you can out of what you've got!

I disagree with what Tony and lookingforaname wrote about using "Save as" for alternative versions of the edited RAW. That gives you relatively big files. A much smaller file, just a few KB can be had by saving only the editing in a separate *.vrd file. This is done through 'Edit/Save recipe in file'. When you want that version, use 'Edit/Read and paste recipe from file'. Unfortunately, however, this method is not as good as Lightroom's Virtual Copy because it does not save operations done with the separate tools, cropping and cloning.

tzalman wrote in post #11903441
I disagree with what Tony and lookingforaname wrote about using "Save as" for alternative versions of the edited RAW. That gives you relatively big files. A much smaller file, just a few KB can be had by saving only the editing in a separate *.vrd file. This is done through 'Edit/Save recipe in file'. When you want that version, use 'Edit/Read and paste recipe from file'. Unfortunately, however, this method is not as good as Lightroom's Virtual Copy because it does not save operations done with the separate tools, cropping and cloning.

I agree with you, Elie -- I tried to discourage the Save As -- I just didn't think of pointing out the Recipe option!

mr2step wrote in post #11901971
Hey everyone and thanks for your input! I use DPP and will then do more local edits on PSE3 if needed like cloning and curves.

To go from DPP to PSE, you'll need to "Convert and Save"

mr2step wrote in post #11901971
I then use "save" and it will overwrite what the camera captured and when in the future i file it away say, on another backup drive and want to look/re-edit in the future, it will be saved as that image?

No. The "as shot" settings will still be available. (Adjustment > "Revert to shot settings")
Also, it will not be saved "as an image", but rather as a Raw file with some "DPP slider settings" in the metadata (file header). Your changes will show up in DPP and only in DPP.

mr2step wrote in post #11901971
That would seem to make sense. I guess I just did not know whether you could really truly "save" an edited RAW

You need to understand the difference between "Save" and "Convert and Save" in DPP.

mr2step wrote in post #11901971
it seems you will never find your photos for later useage unless something descriptive is used.

That's what DAM software and keywords are for

mr2step wrote in post #11901971
One final question/thought while I am thinking of it. Where does everyone save or keep their "best images" from all of their travels and shoots? Do you keep them separate in their own "event" folder or do you create a copy and keep a backup in a "best of" folder?

Keywords, collections etc. in LightRoom or Expression media

Tony-Thanks for the advice. As always, you come to the rescue. I agree that at some point I will not be able to find my pictures. I have had great trouble using Zoombrowser.It just cannot get going on my Mac and just basically is like molasses so it's painful to use. Yet another reason to upgrade to a more powerful computer capable of performing digital editing.
Let me ask you this. Once I save a RAW in DPP, it will not show up the edits in any other app like PSE besides DPP, right? So basically when I open/import into another app I am starting with the original RAW, as if I were starting over from the beginning, yes?
You need to understand the difference between "Save" and "Convert and Save" in DPP.
This is why I asked this question initially, because I was not clear on the differences. Anyone know offhand of any decent/good video tutorials on RAW conversion? I will try the DPP tutorials on Canon, first. Thanks everyone.

Yes, you are right that when you Save in DPP, those "edits" are not visible outside of DPP. This is a frunction of the Raw processing model -- you can't change the Raw data, rather, you do your processing and when in DPP you save it the processor saves those changes in the metadata of the Raw file, which is totally separate from the Raw data.

Programs outside of DPP can't read and interpret the Canon metadata for this -- it's proprietary to Canon. So yeah, if you want to work on the Raw file outside of DPP you are "starting from scratch". And, it's vice-versa -- Adobe (Lightroom, Elements and CSx) write their edits in one of two places (depending on how you're configured), either in the catalog "storeroom" or in a special file which is a text file in the xmp format containing "descriptions" of the processing values done with the Raw data. This is similar to what DPP does -- they each read their own metadata and apply it to a preview of the image the next time you use them to view/process the file, they just can't get to the other's metadata. Adobe apps can work together, though, if you do save an xmp "sidecar".

So, from DPP, the "normal" thing would be to do all your Raw processing there and then do a Convert and Save. This does save the metadata to the Raw file for the future and then uses that processing info to create an image such as a jpeg or a tiff. The "best practice" is, if you need to process the file in Elements/Photoshop, to convert to a tiff because it retains the image quality, rather than compressing the image to create a jpeg. You can then open the tiff in Elements or even in the Elements Camera Raw processor to continue working on the image. A jpeg is "best" done as the final output for either sharing/Web or as a high resolution print file.

I should say, by the way, that my use of DPP can be pretty "fast and loose" -- Lightroom is what I use for "serious" stuff, DPP I use for "quick" stuff, and I will typically have files both on my laptop to play with in DPP, and also download to my desktop for Lightroom -- I'm just havin' fun! Eventually the DPP copies would get deleted if I got them fully processed by Lightroom, but I have a bunch of them there on my laptop awaiting my pleasure!

Hi Tony, I'm going to jump in here after following this thread for awhile.

When I open a raw file in PSE9 and I choose 16 bit at the bottom of the page, is it really working in a 16 bit channel??

I'm trying to sort out conflicting information I have been given. A fellow at a local photo store was trying to sell me Lightroom telling me that PSE9 is an 8-bit channel program period, regardless of what the camera raw page is telling me. I have noticed that all raw files by default open by showing 8 bit at the bottom and only show 16 bit if I select 16. Right now I'm playing with both DPP and PSE9 for raw processing and am finding I prefer the tool palette in PSE9. However, that may be because I bought Kelby's manual and so have more guidance than what the Canon tutorials for DPP give you by a long shot. Anyway, long story longer...I will persevere and try to make friends with DPP if PSE9 is doing all its processing in 8-bit. Thanks for any further enlightenment you can provide, or anyone else chiming in here.
Diane