Need to cover my bases here

So I shoot photography as a hobby, I never charge because I don't feel I'm good enough to do so. I've been offered money for one family reunion I did because It took all day and the family practically shoved it down my jacket.

But lately I've got a lot of messages of people asking me to take shots of their cars or do some portraits for fun. I won't charge.

I'd like to at least be somewhat professional and give them a paper to sign (release for my site/facebook/portfoli​o) and kind of establish the fact that I'm not a professional and my images aren't like copyright official (the Taylor Hockman Photography watermark I add isn't like a business). Whats a professional way to put all this?

Basically I just want to establish that this is my hobby, that I have the right to edit and use the images, and all that. I would like to add a section about charging a fee (for future use) but I'll just put (N/A) there for all these people interested.

Is this common? I read the stickies but I'll admit I didn't search. I know...stone me.

I wonder if the creative commons license might be for you..

http://creativecommons​.org/

very interesting, i'll look into it thanks for posting

I was actually just about to post this question up myself. Glad to see I am not the only one wondering this.

Any info would be great. As he said, I don't plan on selling images, just using them to showcase my talents and post them online/forums/etc. Maybe at the most give them to a person on the forums to make a calender out of (Calender featuring pictures of forum members cars/etc..)

I hope I am not intruding, but I think this is kind of what the OP meant so I figured I would elaborate on it more.

Nope, exactly how I feel. Glad someone else feels the same way you just worded it much better.

I'm slightly confused about why you're drawing anything up.

If you aren't 'hired' by the people whom you provide these shots for, the shots are yours. You can choose to give them to the people for free (which in reality, you should charge - even if it's minimal - trust me, there's lots of reasons why), but if you aren't their 'employee' or aren't hired by them, then you intrinsically retain the copyright.

Now, if you're saying 'down the line, I may want to use these to build my portfolio or advertise, and I want to make sure my bases are covered this way', then yes. If you take portraits of people or their belongings (I do this to be safe), get signed releases from them saying you have the right to use them for commercial means. If they're getting free pics out of the deal, most times they wont mind, but sometimes people do mind -- this is one of the reasons that getting them to pay you for your work is a good thing.

The other side of that is, if people are paying for your work, you should have a contract which allows you to use the images down the road, regardless of whom you decide holds the copyright.

Mistabernie wrote in post #11935249
I'm slightly confused about why you're drawing anything up.

If you aren't 'hired' by the people whom you provide these shots for, the shots are yours. You can choose to give them to the people for free (which in reality, you should charge - even if it's minimal - trust me, there's lots of reasons why), but if you aren't their 'employee' or aren't hired by them, then you intrinsically retain the copyright.

Unless you specifically sign away your copyright, the images are yours and yours only the moment you press the shutter button - regardless of whether or not you are being paid. If you do not sign them away, they are always yours.

As they're yours, you have the right to edit them as you please. If you are being paid, you might want to send proofs to the clients to have them choose which photos they want you to edit, and which they want to ditch.

If you want to use them for your online portfolio, you may do so without a contract and/or compensation to the subjects - you should always ask though.. And if you are taking photos of someone who is paying you, it's always good to have a written agreement specifying your role as photographer, your rights, their rights, etc.

If you want to sell the photos, you need a model release.

jtschell wrote in post #11936545
Unless you specifically sign away your copyright, the images are yours and yours only the moment you press the shutter button - regardless of whether or not you are being paid. If you do not sign them away, they are always yours.

As they're yours, you have the right to edit them as you please. If you are being paid, you might want to send proofs to the clients to have them choose which photos they want you to edit, and which they want to ditch.

If you want to use them for your online portfolio, you may do so without a contract and/or compensation to the subjects - you should always ask though.. And if you are taking photos of someone who is paying you, it's always good to have a written agreement specifying your role as photographer, your rights, their rights, etc.

If you want to sell the photos, you need a model release.

Found this pretty helpful, thanks for this post!

jtschell wrote in post #11936545
Unless you specifically sign away your copyright, the images are yours and yours only the moment you press the shutter button - regardless of whether or not you are being paid. If you do not sign them away, they are always yours.

As they're yours, you have the right to edit them as you please. If you are being paid, you might want to send proofs to the clients to have them choose which photos they want you to edit, and which they want to ditch.

If you want to use them for your online portfolio, you may do so without a contract and/or compensation to the subjects - you should always ask though.. And if you are taking photos of someone who is paying you, it's always good to have a written agreement specifying your role as photographer, your rights, their rights, etc.

If you want to sell the photos, you need a model release.

That's true 90% of the time, but if you are working as an employee of someone else, unless release is granted in an agreement/contract, the copyright belongs to the person that hired you (at least from the investigation I've done).

Mistabernie wrote in post #11936718
That's true 90% of the time, but if you are working as an employee of someone else, unless release is granted in an agreement/contract, the copyright belongs to the person that hired you (at least from the investigation I've done).

I believe if you are working as a staff photog for a publication or coorporation, then yes, you are correct.

If you are hired by a couple who want you to photograph their wedding, the copyright of the photos remains in your name unless otherwise stated (in a copyright release).

My question pertains to the people you take pictures for coming back and trying legal action against you for whatever reason.

Say for example, I meet up with a local guy to take a few pictures of his car. Just as friends, with no intention to sell them. I then post them on forums. One of the pictures happens to be in front of the guys house on the street. After seeing the pictures, a fellow forum member realizes where he lives, and then breaks into his garage at night and steals the car. (And never gets caught)

The owner of the car then comes at me saying that I didn't have the right to post those pictures. (Even though he said that was fine, if there is no proof in writing...) Then tries to get me to pay for the damages saying that he never gave me the go ahead and that it was my photos that caused the car to be located and stolen.

Yes, that is a long stretch, but I am just thinking of a possible scenario to cover all my bases. It can't hurt to just have them sign a piece of paper stating, "Yes. I agree to let them photograph my car and use it at their will."

Right?

Myboostedgst wrote in post #11937114
My question pertains to the people you take pictures for coming back and trying legal action against you for whatever reason.

Say for example, I meet up with a local guy to take a few pictures of his car. Just as friends, with no intention to sell them. I then post them on forums. One of the pictures happens to be in front of the guys house on the street. After seeing the pictures, a fellow forum member realizes where he lives, and then breaks into his garage at night and steals the car. (And never gets caught)

The owner of the car then comes at me saying that I didn't have the right to post those pictures. (Even though he said that was fine, if there is no proof in writing...) Then tries to get me to pay for the damages saying that he never gave me the go ahead and that it was my photos that caused the car to be located and stolen.

Yes, that is a long stretch, but I am just thinking of a possible scenario to cover all my bases. It can't hurt to just have them sign a piece of paper stating, "Yes. I agree to let them photograph my car and use it at their will."

Right?

That reminds me of the time back in 1911 when I posted a picture of the Mona Lisa.. A month later, it was stolen..

Seriously though, I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe you can be held liable for damages by posting a photo of something that already exists in public (a car parked on the street, a celebrity walking from a restaurant, a family having a picnic in the park). This is the issue that Google had with their streetview. People complained that it was an invasion of privacy but there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on a public thoroughfare. Google relented and customers were able to have their houses blurred out. Ridiculous, IMO.

Back to the point.. If you went into his residency, and without having a contract signed, took photos of his Rolex watches posted them online and then they were stolen, he might have a case (again, not a lawyer). If, however, you had a signed contract which stated that in addition to whatever he was paying you for, you were able to use them for self-promotion by posting them online (forums, IMO, are included in this), you wouldn't be accountable (at least not in my understanding).

In the contract that I have all my clients sign, it specifically states that John Schell (me) retains the copyright for the photos and can use any photos for promotional use (web, portfolio, etc). And there is also a paragraph which states that I may sell the photos/release them to a third party (I don't), but because the copyright is mine, I can..

So basically, while there is little chance of something happening, the use of a very basic contract isn't a bad idea.

I think I will just put something small together like what you state in your last paragraph just in case someone does ever want to purchase the photos. That way I dont have to go back and find the person to get permission to sell the photos.

Thansk for the help.