DPP > Transfer to Photoshop ??

Hi, hope someone can answer what seems should be a simple question - although nothing with PhotoShop ever seems "simple".

I'm quite sure all my software is up to date (for Win 7 32 bit OS).

If I open any RAW file (CR2) in CS5 (or Elements 8 for that matter), it opens in ACR.

But if I try to open a Canon RAW file in Photoshop by going through the "tools" menu in DPP, then rather than opening as a RAW file in ACR as I would expect (and want), it opens as a Tiff file in the main editing window of CS5.

This can be a time consuming pain for me - and doesn't seem to make sense.

I have asked the tech support people about this at CPS and they say it's an Adobe issue. Adobe of course says it's a Canon issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated -

Thanks in advance -
D.

Delija wrote in post #11962125
...But if I try to open a Canon RAW file in Photoshop by going through the "tools" menu in DPP, then rather than opening as a RAW file in ACR as I would expect (and want), it opens as a Tiff file in the main editing window of CS5...

That's just how it works... What are you expecting differently?

DPP is primarily a raw editor specific to Canon proprietary raw files. From DPP, select the raw file(s) and click the Edit Image Window button.

ChasP505 wrote in post #11962150
That's just how it works... What are you expecting differently?

As I said, I was expecting (hoping) to get the raw images to open in ACR -

Thought I was pretty clear

Peace,
D.

Delija wrote in post #11962268
As I said, I was expecting (hoping) to get the raw images to open in ACR -

But instead you sent them to Photoshop (as in, Transfer to Photoshop). Photoshop and ACR are independent applications.

Yeah... that would be one raw converter handing off the raw files to another raw converter. DPP converts to TIFF by default when it hands off the (assumed) finished raw file to a pixel editor for final editing. Maybe you should open your raw files from Bridge which is the central file management application for the Adobe CSx group of applications. Then they WILL open in ACR and you'd have a simpler image editing workflow.

If it did go from DPP to ACR it would make no sense. RAW converters are parametric, that means that when you edit in either DPP or ACR nothing happens other than the adjustments you want are listed and remembered. They aren't applied to the image data until you push the button for rendering a rasterized RGB image. DPP writes the list of proposed edits in the RAW file's metadata in code that is meaningful only to DPP and ACR writes its list to a separate xmp file (that is incomprehensible to DPP). Thus, if DPP were to transfer the RAW to ACR it would open as a virgin, unedited image. So what would you need DPP for? You can just open the CR2 directly in ACR and get exactly the same result.

I'll just add that the above combines to make Raw processors "stand alone", and there is also the fact that aside from Camera Raw and Lightroom, Raw processing is proprietary -- DPP doesn't "share" its processing with other Raw processors and vice versa. This is why to pass on a Raw file to another Raw processor doesn't work. The two Adobe processors are the exception, because they share the same "engine" and can share the "metadata" that contains the processing that has been done.

But, from DPP, you want to do all your Raw processing in DPP then transfer to Photoshop as a tiff. Or, of course, if Camera Raw has tools that you want/need for a particulay file you can either use it for your Raw processing or you can Convert and Save in DPP then open a resulting tiff in Camera Raw.

Thanks for the responses - I now understand the logic and it makes sense. I just was hoping there was a faster way to hand off the (VERY) occasional file to a RAW converter that seems to have a stronger recovery for the few files that invariably end up either blown out or under-exposed beyond the capabilities of DPP - at least as far as I know how to use it (which certainly may be a shortcoming of my skills and/or knowledge of DPP)...

I'll try and push to see if DPP is more capable than I am giving it credit for with experimenting and good old "trial and error" -

Although the more I think about it, I suppose the most obvious solution to my specific problem would be to use either Tv or Av exposure rather than full manual since the exposure problems are a result of extraordinarily extreme and rapid changes in lighting that happen when I am not able to make exposure changes since I have to be with the subjects rather than behind the camera (using a wireless shutter release). This makes changes to the manual exposure settings impossible - can't be two places at the same time.

Guess it's time to take advantage of the advances in still photography cameras that have become commonplace since I last used reflex cameras for anything more than family snapshots (over 40 years ago) - Having worked strictly in TV and motion pictures, it's very different working with crews rather than as an individual.

I greatly appreciate the explanations and will experiment with both using partially automated exposure settings and also with DPP's ability to recover seemingly lost detail due to drastically poor exposures. Again, maybe I'm selling DPP's abilities short, but thinking about it I suppose not taking advantage of the automated settings is just a mistake and an easier work-around for the dramatic lighting changes I have to deal with (unfortunately under the circumstances almost always with no time to re-shoot). Being completely dependent on full manual setting is, I suppose, just an old habit that has seen it's time to die come long ago...just more "user error". Time for the "old dog" to get with the "new tricks".

tonylong wrote in post #11962829
...... of course, if Camera Raw has tools that you want/need for a particulay file you can either use it for your Raw processing or you can Convert and Save in DPP then open a resulting tiff in Camera Raw.

That sounds ideal if I can't get DPP to do what I currently feel it lacks the power to do that Adobe Camera Raw can do quickly and easily ........but I have no idea how to open a "resulting tiff in Camera Raw" as you suggest.

That is possible? If so, then that would at least give me an option I hadn't realized existed. An option that even though I would hope would not be needed if I can exploit power that DPP may have that I am (so far) unaware of. No matter what, the more options, the better!

Thanks!!
D.

If you double click on any raw file, it should open in ACR. I have mine set up to always open raw, jpg and tiff. In Photoshop, I use CS5, go to 'edit>preferences>file handling'. Below shows my setup. By clicking on the button that says "Camera RAW preferences", another window opens. At the bottom is where I have it set to open jpg's and tiff's when I double click on those files.

Hope that's what you had in mind.

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Yeah, to the above about being able to open tiffs automatically in ACR. Alternatively you can right-click on a tiff to open it in ACR.

As to your dealing with highlights -- I agree that Camera Raw does better with highlights and shadows as well. It may be just that I'm not as experienced working with DPP as I am with Photoshop and Lightroom, but when I have challenging shots Lightroom is a no-brainer to me. I do enjoy using DPP for a lot of things, though.

navydoc wrote in post #11964170
If you double click on any raw file, it should open in ACR. I have mine set up to always open raw, jpg and tiff. In Photoshop, I use CS5, go to 'edit>preferences>file handling'. Below shows my setup. By clicking on the button that says "Camera RAW preferences", another window opens. At the bottom is where I have it set to open jpg's and tiff's when I double click on those files.

Hope that's what you had in mind.

Yup, worked exactly as I hoped - just opened the Tiff file sent from DPP to ACR. Thanks.

BTW, not sure if I should take your user name literally (but don't see why I shouldn't) - interesting to me since my son is planning to be a Navy doctor - which I guess will make him a lifer (he has already served as a nuke after high school, finishing college next semester, then med school, then back into the Navy. Guess he'll be a lifer since he's already 26 and will be almost 27 by the time he finishes his BS degree.

tonylong wrote in post #11964592
Yeah, to the above about being able to open tiffs automatically in ACR. Alternatively you can right-click on a tiff to open it in ACR.

As to your dealing with highlights -- I agree that Camera Raw does better with highlights and shadows as well. It may be just that I'm not as experienced working with DPP as I am with Photoshop and Lightroom, but when I have challenging shots Lightroom is a no-brainer to me. I do enjoy using DPP for a lot of things, though.

Didn't have any luck opening Tiff files by right clicking - but using the settings Navydoc showed did the trick.
I feel the same way about DPP - I like using it, but find it to be less effective than ACR for drastic recoveries of disaster exposures - but also like you, it could just be that I am not as experienced with it (never used it until recently) and maybe it's just a matter of working with it and seeing what it is capable of.

Thanks for your input.

Peace,
D.

Delija, glad my suggestion worked for what you had in mind.

As for my username, I was a dental tech in the Navy from 1963 to '67. The nickname corpsmen and DT's went by was doc. Since "doc" was already taken here, I used "navydoc". You or your son might be interested in visiting my USS Oriskany website. I also have a story I wrote there about my time in the service from boot camp, DT school, Pearl Harbor to being aboard the carrier. Just click on the link in my sig below.

navydoc wrote in post #11966451
Delija, glad my suggestion worked for what you had in mind.

As for my username, I was a dental tech in the Navy from 1963 to '67. The nickname corpsmen and DT's went by was doc. Since "doc" was already taken here, I used "navydoc". You or your son might be interested in visiting my USS Oriskany website. I also have a story I wrote there about my time in the service from boot camp, DT school, Pearl Harbor to being aboard the carrier. Just click on the link in my sig below.

PM sent.....
Thank you for the advice, the link to your amazing web site, and especially for your service -

Peace,
D.

I guess my advice was ignored...

My point was/is, if you've chosen ACR as your default raw converter, why use DPP at all? Use Bridge as your file organizer and thumbnail/preview viewer.

If you open a raw file from Bridge, ACR is "hosted" by Bridge, taking the load off Photoshop and freeing it to do simultaneous work.

ChasP505 wrote in post #11972651
I guess my advice was ignored...

My point was/is, if you've chosen ACR as your default raw converter, why use DPP at all? Use Bridge as your file organizer and thumbnail/preview viewer.

If you open a raw file from Bridge, ACR is "hosted" by Bridge, taking the load off Photoshop and freeing it to do simultaneous work.

I didn't ignore your advice...sorry if you got that impression. I appreciate the suggestion.

Everyone has their own style and reasons for choosing a work-flow. I don't use Bridge because I don't keep photos on my hard drive. I try and keep things as simple as possible. Take photos, post process as best as I can (and if I can't get it right, I let someone more qualified than me do it for me). I get the photos printed and get paid and if everything goes well, I never need to see the photos again. The prints are not for me, they are for customers. I also don't rely on prints being exactly as seen on any computer monitor i own. The lab I use has far better equipment and far better graphic artists than I could ever hope to be.

Maybe I don't know what I am missing, since I never used Bridge...Or LightRoom. I started using PS before it was CS and then got CS #1 (I think it was PS8). So I never learned how to use Bridge (or ImageReady for that matter).


Bottom line is I want to spend as little time as possible doing post production work. I realize I may be missing out on better ways to do things, but I much prefer to enjoy life than learn new software. I spent over 40 years doing lighting design for motion pictures and live TV....Now in my "retirement" I do some photography to keep busy. If I get stuck with any software problems I can't resolve myself, I let the lab I work with do the work. It costs me a it of profit, but saves me a lot of frustration. I'd rather be sailing or fishing or taking pictures - enjoying life...than learning new (to me) software.

I'm sure that many of my images that I sell would not pass muster with the "pixel peepers". But I have never gotten a complaint - I have never ever heard of a customer (other than ad agencies when it comes to product shots) complaining about "image quality"....customers pay for quality images.

I just take pictures that people like. Once in a while I need to "rescue" lost details and that's why I always shoot in RAW and like using ACR since it seems to do a better job than anything else in recovering what looks to be lost details if I over or under expose...mistakes happen. They can't always be fixed, but I just feel that from my limited experience that ACR is the most capable program to use to recover details I sometimes seem to need help with...Which isn't really very often. I spent over 40 years doing lighting for TV and film, so I don't frequently miss on my lightning. It's just those one time non-repeatable images that I'll sometimes rush and just miss on exposure.

Peace,
D.

Delija wrote in post #12084696
Peace,
D.

Bueno...