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Thread started 23 Mar 2011 (Wednesday) 12:02
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histogram- camera vs computer

 
ncjohn
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Mar 23, 2011 12:02 |  #1

I'm analyzing histograms of my shots, trying to figure out just what I'm doing exposure-wise, and there's a really big difference between the in-camera histogram and what I see on the computer. (The peak is in the same general area, of course, but otherwise they're really quite different.) I've looked in DPP, ACR, and PSE (using levels and curves). Is there a good way to see on-screen a histogram that looks more like the camera histogram?
Thanks




  
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René ­ Damkot
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Mar 23, 2011 12:23 |  #2

Do you shoot raw or jpg?

ACR applies it's own "defaults", so any parameter set in camera will be ignored.
DPP should show a raw about the same as the camera.

What are your dpp prefs set at?


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Sdiver2489
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Mar 23, 2011 12:24 |  #3

the camera one with use the color space you set up for JPG images. The Computer one may use a different color gamut than the camera. Depens on the software, something like RAW really has no color space so you often see programs using their own color spaces which will make them look different than what you see on camera.


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Mar 23, 2011 12:25 |  #4

DPP applies you in camera picture style when it imports them, that should give you the best representation.

I use neutral picture style with 0 sharpening and -4 contrast for the best representation of what is captured at the max dynamic range. I use this on 40D, 7D and 5DII.


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tonylong
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Mar 23, 2011 12:27 |  #5

Well, it's an interesting question and I don't have technical ansers, but comparing a couple images using DPP it looks like the luminance histogram will show clipping highlights more quickly than DPP will, and obviously there is a big difference on the "shadows" side -- of course if you lower both the Raw and RGB brightness sliders then you will bring the image all the way back to the left and to black, and I'm not sure how that would correlate to an in-camera histogram except, well, all the way to the left!

Anyway, like I said, I don't have any technical info to play with, just that there seems to be more "room" in the DPP histogram luminos.ity-wise


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Mar 23, 2011 12:29 |  #6

BTW I used the Neutral Picture Style in-camera but don't have contrast settings dialed all the way back, so that has some influence in the histogram. I'd have to mess with that.


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Sdiver2489
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Mar 23, 2011 12:36 |  #7

I've never liked the neutral picture style, at least in LR, it seems to make blues purple and gives me some odd neutral tones. I've always preferred faithfuls rendering.


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tzalman
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Mar 23, 2011 12:42 |  #8

windpig wrote in post #12076946 (external link)
DPP applies you in camera picture style when it imports them, that should give you the best representation.

The histogram on the RGB tab should be the same as the camera because it represents the image after the default processing which is based on the settings the camera used to make the display jpg from which the camera's histogram is derived, provided either the default color space (as set in Preferences) or the active color space as set in Adjustment/Work Color Space is the same as set in the camera.

The histogram on the RAW tab is a different "critter", since it apparently portrays RAW data after WB is applied but before the Picture Style adjustments.


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windpig
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Mar 23, 2011 13:11 |  #9

tzalman wrote in post #12077089 (external link)
The histogram on the RGB tab should be the same as the camera because it represents the image after the default processing which is based on the settings the camera used to make the display jpg from which the camera's histogram is derived, provided either the default color space (as set in Preferences) or the active color space as set in Adjustment/Work Color Space is the same as set in the camera.

The histogram on the RAW tab is a different "critter", since it apparently portrays RAW data after WB is applied but before the Picture Style adjustments.

interesting

I'm going to have to check this out.

thanks for the info.


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Mar 23, 2011 13:13 |  #10

Keep in mind that the in-camera histogram bases its content upon the tiny little 160x120 (or so) thumbnail stored. So inherently it will not be the same histogram as from a 4500x3000 pixel image file in a JPG editor.


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ncjohn
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Mar 23, 2011 13:49 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #11

Wow! So many things to consider...:)

Shooting in RAW.
DPP preferences: Working space sRGB. Histogram display: after adjustment (but I haven't made any). NR 0. I don't see any other prefs that look like they would be relevant. Adjustment>work color space is sRGB.

In-camera picture style is neutral>0,0,0,0. Color space sRGB.

I try to keep everything set to neutral so I get as "raw" data as possible.

OK, well, since you guys made me look at all this stuff:), I've discovered something: In DPP, the Tone Curve Mode was set to RGB instead of luminance. When I set it to luminance, it pretty much looks like the camera histogram. (And still really doesn't look like the ones in the other software.)

Thanks a lot for all the responses, that's what I needed.

But I don't know what to think about this:

The histogram on the RAW tab is a different "critter", since it apparently portrays RAW data after WB is applied but before the Picture Style adjustments.

The histogram on the RAW tab really doesn't look anything like the one under the RGB tab and my picture style is neutral>0,0,0,0. Would there still be "picture style adjustments" made that would make the histogram look totally different?




  
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tonylong
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Mar 23, 2011 14:04 |  #12

Sdiver2489 wrote in post #12077040 (external link)
I've never liked the neutral picture style, at least in LR, it seems to make blues purple and gives me some odd neutral tones. I've always preferred faithfuls rendering.

Well, you need to realize that Lightroom does not process the in-camera Picture Style so it won't matter (assuming you are using Raw). The Lightroom Profile is something totally different -- you set it to whatever suits you.

ncjohn wrote in post #12077516 (external link)
But I don't know what to think about this:
The histogram on the RAW tab really doesn't look anything like the one under the RGB tab and my picture style is neutral>0,0,0,0. Would there still be "picture style adjustments" made that would make the histogram look totally different?

Yes, the Picture Style setting can affect both the Luminance histogram (especially the Contrast) and the RGB histogram. Of course, play around freely with them, no harm done when you are using Raw.


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René ­ Damkot
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Mar 23, 2011 15:07 |  #13

Also, the LR histogram is based on it's inteternal working space (ProPhotoRGB gamut, gamma 1)
ACR histogram is based on output colorspace used.
http://www.getcolorman​aged.com …management/clip​warninglr/ (external link)


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tonylong
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Mar 23, 2011 16:17 |  #14

René Damkot wrote in post #12077998 (external link)
Also, the LR histogram is based on it's inteternal working space (ProPhotoRGB gamut, gamma 1)
ACR histogram is based on output colorspace used.
http://www.getcolorman​aged.com …management/clip​warninglr/ (external link)

Yeah, and the DPP RGB histogram is based on the working color space. Meaning, if DPP is using sRGB your RGB histogram won't look the same as either the LR histogram or your cameras if you are shooting in aRGB! Fun stuff!

I mentioned earlier how the luminance/Raw panel histogram has all the "space" at the left (shadow) side, and it's interesting -- if you pull the Brightness slider all the way back it apparently refuses to go beyond the black point. But, the Brightness slider of the RGB panel has no such qualms!


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tzalman
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Mar 23, 2011 18:11 |  #15

But I don't know what to think about this:
Quote:
The histogram on the RAW tab is a different "critter", since it apparently portrays RAW data after WB is applied but before the Picture Style adjustments.
The histogram on the RAW tab really doesn't look anything like the one under the RGB tab and my picture style is neutral>0,0,0,0. Would there still be "picture style adjustments" made that would make the histogram look totally different?

I based that statement on two easily observed facts; a. - the only adjustments that have any effect on the "RAW" histogram are Brightness (in other applications called "Exposure") and WB, but Brightness merely shifts the entire graph to one side or the other without changing its shape while WB does cause a change in shape, b. moving any other slider - even switching to a linear image - has no effect on the RAW histogram, which leads me to think that the data siphoned off for the histogram is from any early stage in the workflow, but not the beginning.


Elie / אלי

  
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histogram- camera vs computer
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