Need your advice

Hi all! I have a client signed a contract for a July Wedding early this month. I have a $500 minimum non-refundable retainer deposit. However, when they signed the contract, they asked me if they can give the retainer deposit and possibly additional payment in a week or two after they received their tax refund that they're expecting. I agreed and told them that I will give them their copy of the contract once I received the retainer deposit. The bride called me last week to set an appointment to pay it in full but couldn't because of conflict in schedules. Today, received a call from both the groom and bride asking me details of the contract and later on telling me that an aunt, who is a wedding planner, hired a photographer/videograp​her as a gift for them. The groom assured me that they're definitely keeping me as their photographer. My contract clearly states that I am the only photographer for the wedding. I can't, however, read the bride as to what she wants to do. When I asked her if she wants to cancel me, she said no because she doesn't even know what she's getting with what the aunt signed up for. But she kept on asking me what will happen if they go with the one hired by their aunt since it will not cost them anything and if they will still have to pay the $500 non-refundable retainer deposit. I told her to find out and tell me what's included in what their aunt signed up for. If your in my situation, what would you do?

Thanks all for your help.

Well, first of all, explain to them that the reason you charge a non-refundable retainer is because it stops you from accepting work on their wedding day and binds you to them. Explain that all of the inquiries you've gotten for their wedding date since then has been turned down, which means that by them canceling and you only keeping the retainer you are actually losing money. What I usually do when someone cancels is I try my best to book another wedding on that day and then just send them their retainer back when I get paid the new retainer. I know I don't have to do this but I find it helps my reputation. Although I can't always book another wedding on that date so if that's the case the retainer cannot be returned.

As for the other photographer, you need to tell them that having another photographer in the room will be distracting for both photographers and greatly affect the outcome of both. Your lighting will interfere with their lighting and having two people taking two sets of portraits will take twice as long, if not longer, which will greatly affect the timeline of their day. The two of you may go to get the same shot and run into each other and both shots would be ruined, you will both want the best angles for the cake cutting and in order to be able to work side by side both of you would have to sacrifice the "best" for what works, etc. So they need to decide who they want and give you an answer soon so you can get working on booking another event for their date if they choose to go with the other guy. But do explain that you are fine with the other guy being there in a videographer capacity only and you can easily work together in that situation.

And btw, WTF hires a photographer and videographer for someone else's wedding without even asking them first? That is beyond rude and I'd be POd if anyone did that behind my back!

PeaceFire wrote in post #12088315
As for the other photographer, you need to tell them that having another photographer in the room will be distracting for both photographers and greatly affect the outcome of both.

^ Agree. Also would try to convince them gently to do their best to get rid of the other photographer. If that doesn't happen, I'd still do the job but would let them know that you are the main and will be asserting yourself accordingly on the day.

If they've signed the contract and paid the retainer, then tell them no other professionals are allowed, and if one is there you'll leave and will still have to be paid. If they haven't paid the full retainer refund their money and walk away, happy to be free of complications.

Thanks guys for your insights.

@Tim: I am actually thinking of just walking away but my clients are the bride and groom. The aunt doesn't have the right to do what she wishes. I am a nice guy (I think :confused that's why I don't want to take their money for nothing. But it's also not fair for me who booked the bride and groom and not do the job and someone can get away to do job because a relative booked them.

It seems also that they are tempted to go with the other vendor because of the combo of photography and videography. I guess I should start finding a freelance videographer to work with.

Sounds like something you will want to back away from and just let them go with the other guy. Anyway that is what I would do....headaches down the road is what I see with this deal.

Shockey wrote in post #12089886
....headaches down the road is what I see with this deal.

This is what I'm afraid of happening with their aunt/wedding planner being a PITA diva.

Shockey wrote in post #12089886
Sounds like something you will want to back away from and just let them go with the other guy. Anyway that is what I would do....headaches down the road is what I see with this deal.

i had a similar thing happen to me this winter. not the same, but similar.
a bride loved my work, i shot a friend of her's wedding and it turned out good.
she almost gave me my required retainer during the other brides wedding she was so happy with me.
We met later, she liked the packages, everything was good and she was going to give me the retainer next week after she got paid or something. during that week one of her aunts decided to hire another photographer for her wedding as a gift and just let her know. The bride was devastated as she likes my work better, etc.. but couldn't turn down the gift.

i wasn't about to work along side another photog even if she asked. she tried to get the money from her aunt to book me with instead of the "other guy" but a deposit had already been made.

nothing lost but a little time, and sucked because i thought i was going to get the gig. but oh well...

This is why i've learned to not count on something until the contract is signed and the retainer has cleared

I couldn't have said it better myself!

PeaceFire wrote in post #12088315
Well, first of all, explain to them that the reason you charge a non-refundable retainer is because it stops you from accepting work on their wedding day and binds you to them. Explain that all of the inquiries you've gotten for their wedding date since then has been turned down, which means that by them canceling and you only keeping the retainer you are actually losing money. What I usually do when someone cancels is I try my best to book another wedding on that day and then just send them their retainer back when I get paid the new retainer. I know I don't have to do this but I find it helps my reputation. Although I can't always book another wedding on that date so if that's the case the retainer cannot be returned.

As for the other photographer, you need to tell them that having another photographer in the room will be distracting for both photographers and greatly affect the outcome of both. Your lighting will interfere with their lighting and having two people taking two sets of portraits will take twice as long, if not longer, which will greatly affect the timeline of their day. The two of you may go to get the same shot and run into each other and both shots would be ruined, you will both want the best angles for the cake cutting and in order to be able to work side by side both of you would have to sacrifice the "best" for what works, etc. So they need to decide who they want and give you an answer soon so you can get working on booking another event for their date if they choose to go with the other guy. But do explain that you are fine with the other guy being there in a videographer capacity only and you can easily work together in that situation.

And btw, WTF hires a photographer and videographer for someone else's wedding without even asking them first? That is beyond rude and I'd be POd if anyone did that behind my back!

I would never shoot a wedding where there is a second hired photographer. I think this is the worst thing you can do to a photographer. Sometimes it is hard dealing with certain videographers, but two people wanting the same spot during the ceremony, with creative differences calls for a very difficult wedding. I would tell them it is me or the other guy, but not both.

bigarchi wrote in post #12090824
i had a similar thing happen to me this winter. not the same, but similar.
a bride loved my work, i shot a friend of her's wedding and it turned out good.
she almost gave me my required retainer during the other brides wedding she was so happy with me.
We met later, she liked the packages, everything was good and she was going to give me the retainer next week after she got paid or something. during that week one of her aunts decided to hire another photographer for her wedding as a gift and just let her know. The bride was devastated as she likes my work better, etc.. but couldn't turn down the gift.

i wasn't about to work along side another photog even if she asked. she tried to get the money from her aunt to book me with instead of the "other guy" but a deposit had already been made.

nothing lost but a little time, and sucked because i thought i was going to get the gig. but oh well...

This is why i've learned to not count on something until the contract is signed and the retainer has cleared

very, very similar...except they signed the contract and asked me if they can give the retainer on a later date...which I agreed...was about to pay in full last week if only not the conflict in our schedules...

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #12090849
I would never shoot a wedding where there is a second hired photographer. I think this is the worst thing you can do to a photographer. Sometimes it is hard dealing with certain videographers, but two people wanting the same spot during the ceremony, with creative differences calls for a very difficult wedding. I would tell them it is me or the other guy, but not both.

I would never, too. My contract is always I and only I am the wedding photographer.

If they decide to go with the other guy, should I still collect the retainer since we have a binding contract? Or should I just forget the whole thing and walk away? The only reason I want to collect the retainer is because I want or need to show these people that they have to respect a contract. On the other hand, I don't want to take their money for nothing.

bulayog wrote in post #12091747
I would never, too. My contract is always I and only I am the wedding photographer.

If they decide to go with the other guy, should I still collect the retainer since we have a binding contract? Or should I just forget the whole thing and walk away? The only reason I want to collect the retainer is because I want or need to show these people that they have to respect a contract. On the other hand, I don't want to take their money for nothing.

I dont know if you can take a retainer. I always tell clients that they arent booked until retainer and contract are signed. Plus, I think it will be quite hard to collect a retainer they know they are going to lose. I know it sucks to lose a client, but it happens. If you had already collected, that would be one thing, but since you havent, thank them and move on. Hopefully they want to use you in the future.

I totally mis-read this. I thought you already had a contract. I would honestly just walk away. You do have a contract so it's possible if you took them to small claims court that you could get it, but do you really want to do that? Probably not worth the time/energy/damage to your reputation.

This is why I do not guarantee their date until the retainer is in hand. A signed contract means nothing unless it comes with the retainer and my contract even states that.

Be aware that a signed contract and a retainer (never call it a deposit!) sometimes don't mean anything, either. I know a pro photographer that has had a judge in California order him to give the retainer back 5 times when the client found a cheaper photographer closer to the wedding.

BestVisuals wrote in post #12092158
Be aware that a signed contract and a retainer (never call it a deposit!) sometimes don't mean anything, either. I know a pro photographer that has had a judge in California order him to give the retainer back 5 times when the client found a cheaper photographer closer to the wedding.

Did I read this correctly, that if he charged a $1,000 retainer, the judge ordered him to pay them $5,000?