Devil's advocate

I thought it would be interesting for each of us to play devil's advocate on a situation we have a strong opinion about. I think this will possibly broaden our horizons, and help us investigate a different point of view.

Here is an example.

Situation: Bride wants table shots during the reception. I hate doing table shots, and find they come out to be nothing more than decent snapshots
Devil's advocate: The bride is probably not looking for award winning shots, but something to remember her guests by. She will be more than happy with our photos from the tables, because they are going to be better than anyone else at the party can come up with.

What do you think? Can we try to go outside ourselves and try to come up with a different opinion on some of the things that bother us at weddings?

My solution for table shots is that I let my assistant take them.

I know you're looking for us to throw out other topics, too, but table shots come up all the time for me. As always, I give the client what they want, but as a matter of practice, I try to work the room and take "couple" pictures of just about everyone at the tables. I don't mind doing these as much as typical table pictures for a thousand reasons and once the client sees the difference in quality, they always agree.

Peacefield wrote in post #12104302
I know you're looking for us to throw out other topics, too, but table shots come up all the time for me. As always, I give the client what they want, but as a matter of practice, I try to work the room and take "couple" pictures of just about everyone at the tables. I don't mind doing these as much as typical table pictures for a thousand reasons and once the client sees the difference in quality, they always agree.

I lump in "couple pictures while at the table" in with table shots. I will normally go around and try to take photos of the couples around, and if they want a big table shot, then Ill do that.

Anyways, how about you throw out one Bob. Unedited photos? Discounts?

I'll have to say that I generally do not experience some of the things discussed here: negotiating discounts, bridezillas, etc. I don't know if it's owing to the kind of people I tend to attract or if I've just been lucky.

I guess the only thing that makes me cringe is every so often, I meet with a couple where one of them thinks they know more about wedding photography than I and wants to be more than appropriately engaged in planning MY day.

I raised a 'Something I hate doing'

The answer unfortunately is : The couple are paying, you do whatever they ask and smile.

I don't advertise table shots on my webiste or my full galleries so I would hope couples would know what they were getting. People with their own cameras can take table shots.

Now. For me. I would like to get to s stage like some of the best out there, where people know what I do, know what I offer and know what type of images I provide. Soooooo. I do not do anything other than this and not expected to. I am hired purely for what I do, because that is purely what they want.

It would be nice to be at a stage where I have more bookings than I can take, so if people ask me, do I do, for example, table shots or formal shots, I can say. Sorry, your with the wrong photographer go elsewhere. Sadly I am not at that stage so I say. I'll do anything you want me to, I'll dress in just a banana hammock if that means you'll book with me and pay me money....

Never thought you could get the word banana hammock into a wedding forum did ya...

dariussutherland wrote in post #12107970
Never thought you could get the word banana hammock into a wedding forum did ya...

hahahaha

I'll play - tipping -
I recently saw a clients all-inclusive agenda. and about every third line in the agenda read something like "groom to tip so-and-so."

i'm talking priest, pianist, vocalist, limo driver, venue coordinator, dj, caterer, bar tender, bell hop, etc, etc..
Now i don't expect to get a tip, but it was tough to see that list before the wedding day and know that "photographer" was not on that list. It never is.

devils advocate - it is expected to tip the driver, bell hop and bar tender; even for mediocre service.
It is not standard practice to tip a photographer, no matter how good they do.
It is expected that a photographer will do their job good for the price agreed upon.

and our work isn't done the day of the wedding, like everyone else. They haven't even seen my product yet,
so why would they tip me ahead of that deliverable anyway?!

I usually suggest parking a 2nd photographer by the guestbook, and take pics of people/couples as they sign in
of course, usually she signs it while he heads to the bar, so it rarely works

tables shots are best done before the guests ever even set their eyes on them

I actually have 2 things that I feel strongly about..

1) I typically am acquaintances with many of my brides. So, they announce on every public forum they can that I will be shooting their wedding which is great publicity, yet immediately after the wedding they post the typical very blurry, underexposed, heads cut off wedding photographs shot by their friends and members of their family without stating that they aren't mine.. which could be very bad publicity!

Devil's advocate: I typically post on their public forum photo albums in a very polite manner.. "Oh, are these the photos your friends took? Your professional wedding images taken by me will be ready by xxxxx. I can't wait for you to see them!" It's my method of damage control until I figure out something better. I really do not know how effective it is.


2) Bride's family and friends constantly calling for me to take shots that THEY want. Since I typically shoot small weddings, which typically tend to be in very poorly lit, small churches, the family likes to flock toward open windows and doors for the shots because they think the light is better. This creates a unattractive backlit situation usually full of parked cars, and the necessity to re-adjust all of my settings repeatedly.

Devil's advocate: This is one main reason for my contract. I am there and being paid to make sure the Bride (and groom, but not as much) is happy. I address my "creativity aspect" well before the wedding and I ask for a list of specific shots important to the bride. She realizes I will do whatever she wants within reason but ultimately I shoot to my taste, which is why she hired me in the first place! My brides understand that they must have a person or two designated to interact with me after the ceremony and "direct" the formal family shots. That's where my responsibility ends as I do not know many of the guests, and I am not going to be ordered around by everyone there. Yes, I slightly attempt to pacify some guests, especially her parents, but all in all.. it's all about the bride.

DeborahMcCloud wrote in post #12110113
yet immediately after the wedding they post the typical very blurry, underexposed, heads cut off wedding photographs shot by their friends

I had this happen recently but with a DJ. A really excellent guy and I sent him some good pictures to use. Unfortunately, on his blog in which he identifies me as the photographer, he displays his own crap pictures so it ends up looking like I took them. Ugh!

bigarchi wrote in post #12109343
and our work isn't done the day of the wedding, like everyone else. They haven't even seen my product yet, so why would they tip me ahead of that deliverable anyway?!

you tip to say thanks but also to provide some incentive to the photog to possibly go above and beyond the couples who didn't tip. shooting isn't even half the game.. they know that.

As a professional, if I'm contracted, I'll do my best to take them. Regardless of how much I dislike them.

KSPhotography wrote in post #12112435
As a professional, if I'm contracted, I'll do my best to take them. Regardless of how much I dislike them.

obviously, but they don't know if you are a slacker or not.. has nothing to do with you.

I hate never having enough time to do the couples portraits!

It always seems to get shunted back, and squeezed down, and than poof, it's the reception and they just want to party, while I still want to take artistic photos. Ce La Vie, I head off to snap the shutter and enjoy the music.

Table shots.. my solution. If they really want them arrange for the DJ/MC to announce after the couple have entered and the basic venue housekkeeping blurb is done that the bride and groom would like table shots of all their guests. Also get him/her to say that they would like all the guests to remain seated for 5 minutes until their table has been done.

You can then quickly get around every table, with every guest present, before the table gets a mess or covered in food and get people's co-operation as the "bride and groom" made the request and not you.

If you have a second shooter or an assistant it will take even less time. An assistant can be arranging guests at the next table you are good to shoot. A second shooter obviously cuts the time in half.

Personally I say to clients if they won't do this I make no guarantees of getting the table shots as getting everyone at every table during a night is near impossible. Also you don't end up harassing the guests as it is over before they tuck into their entrees.