Jumping For Joy?

I'm about to purchase some Buff lights.

I will be doing some home studio stuff, but I also want to shoot some jumping dancers (like ballerinas jumping).

Would 2 or 3 AB800s handle this in a room say 20x20 with a 12' ceiling?
Or should I consider Einsteins?
Or should I consider one Einstein and 1 or 2 AB800s (would the t1 difference give me ghosting in the jumps)?

Thanx for your patience!

mmm k?

Kechar wrote in post #12117385
I'm about to purchase some Buff lights.

I will be doing some home studio stuff, but I also want to shoot some jumping dancers (like ballerinas jumping).

Would 2 or 3 AB800s handle this in a room say 20x20 with a 12' ceiling?
Or should I consider Einsteins?
Or should I consider one Einstein and 1 or 2 AB800s (would the t1 difference give me ghosting in the jumps)?

Thanx for your patience!

No matter how fast your t.1 duration is, it depends on how much or little ambient light you have. B400's and/or B800's should definitely be suffice to be honest though.

It would be no ambient...basically in a dance studio.
The room is quite big and I would rather not have the lights so close to the dancers that they feel like they're jumping through a light tunnel. Would like to mod the lights also (softbox, umbrellas, etc...).
The room is probably more than 20x20, but not much.

My budget leaves me a few options:
3 Einsteins or...
1 Einstein + 2 AB800s + 2 minivags or...
3 AB800 + 3 minivags

These are tough choices to make.
Been reading like a school kid cramming for finals learning this stuff!

Kechar wrote in post #12119903
It would be no ambient...basically in a dance studio.
The room is quite big and I would rather not have the lights so close to the dancers that they feel like they're jumping through a light tunnel. Would like to mod the lights also (softbox, umbrellas, etc...).
The room is probably more than 20x20, but not much.

My budget leaves me a few options:
3 Einsteins or...
1 Einstein + 2 AB800s + 2 minivags or...
3 AB800 + 3 minivags

These are tough choices to make.
Been reading like a school kid cramming for finals learning this stuff!

I'm just a little confused. minivags? You mean the Vagabond Mini? And if so, why would you buy multiple? If anything, buy one and a couple extra battery packs :P If you plan on freezing action a lot, your best bet is the Einstein without a doubt. We can't make those choices for you though. If you have any questions regarding the gear itself, shoot!

Aressem wrote in post #12120736
I'm just a little confused. minivags? You mean the Vagabond Mini? And if so, why would you buy multiple? If anything, buy one and a couple extra battery packs :P If you plan on freezing action a lot, your best bet is the Einstein without a doubt. We can't make those choices for you though. If you have any questions regarding the gear itself, shoot!

If you can dedicate a mini vag to each light, you can decrease recycle times. Of course for that much money, I'd just wait another 6-7 seconds between shots.

Yes, by minivag I mean Vagabond Mini...minivag is easier to type and sounds cool coming off the tongue.

Hadn't considered one minivag with multiple bats. Good call! I guess I could deal with the wires all terminating at one point.

I have about $2000 to $2500 budgeted for my studio. I know it's not much, but it's all I can spare for now. Just trying to make the best use of it. I already have hardware and mods and such wishlisted on B&H and Amazon through advice found here. The light makers is all I have left to decide on..

I'm sure of this, but should I expect AB800s to also? AND if I mix Einsteins and AB800s will I run into an issue with different t1 times?

That would be an expensive lesson if I chose to buy the wrong stuff. That's why i'm here trying to gain knowledge from others experience. I've read till my eyes have bled, but AB800s freezing action and mixing Es and 800s is something I haven't run across. I actually think I read about different lights and ghosting issues because of differing t1s somewhere. It had examples pictures and everything, but I can't remember where.

Kechar wrote in post #12123280
I'm sure of this, but should I expect AB800s to also? AND if I mix Einsteins and AB800s will I run into an issue with different t1 times?

Theoretically, yes. In practice, I don't know. I've never tried to freeze human movement, only water drops. My experience is that you will get motion blur as long as the slower light / flash is present and hitting the subject. I've tried to light only the background with a B400 @ max, and then use speedlites to hit the water drops, and the reflected light from the background/b400 causes motion blur.

That being said, I'm not sure how applicable that is to human movement on a larger scale. I've seen a B800 used in shots that froze skateboarders / skiers mid air, so it may be much easier to freeze human movement.

I would not move forward until I had a definitive answer though, that could turn out to be a waste of time and money.

BrandonSi wrote in post #12124121
Theoretically, yes. In practice, I don't know. I've never tried to freeze human movement, only water drops. My experience is that you will get motion blur as long as the slower light / flash is present and hitting the subject. I've tried to light only the background with a B400 @ max, and then use speedlites to hit the water drops, and the reflected light from the background/b400 causes motion blur.

That being said, I'm not sure how applicable that is to human movement on a larger scale. I've seen a B800 used in shots that froze skateboarders / skiers mid air, so it may be much easier to freeze human movement.

I would not move forward until I had a definitive answer though, that could turn out to be a waste of time and money.

I agree. Motion blur is very possible when using the B400 even without any ambient lighting. The lower the power set on the strobe, the higher the changes of getting motion blurring.

Here's an interesting thread from a while back where this was discussed a little more in detail. This was when I first became aware of motion blur occurring when using strobes.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=320826

BrandonSi wrote in post #12124121
Theoretically, yes. In practice, I don't know. I've never tried to freeze human movement, only water drops. My experience is that you will get motion blur as long as the slower light / flash is present and hitting the subject. I've tried to light only the background with a B400 @ max, and then use speedlites to hit the water drops, and the reflected light from the background/b400 causes motion blur.

YES it was a water drop testing. That's exactly where I saw the ghosting issue with different t1 time flashes!

If you are looking to stop motion, as in freezing dancers, I would stick with Einsteins. You can lower the power and get extremely short flash durations. Combine them with either 64" or 86" silver PLMs to make the most of the light you have, and you should be able to freeze them quite well. The thread Leo posted (thanks for that, btw, very interesting read) makes it clear that the flash durations from Bees (or most other monolights) aren't always fast enough to freeze kids in motion, so I'm going to say they're almost surely not fast enough to freeze dancers in motion.

That said, you have to ask yourself how many lights you'll be using for the dancers, and what else you'll be using your lights for. You may find you only need one light to get the look you want, in which case one Einstein and two B800's might be sufficient. Given the color temperature differences, though, I would probably try to stick with at least two Einsteins, one for main and one for fill, and maybe you could get away with a B800 for your background since the color temp isn't as important there. But, if two out of three of your lights are Einsteins, if the extra cost wasn't an issue, I'd just get three Einsteins.

I say this even though I just arranged to trade one of my Einsteins for two B800's. In my case, I was using two Einsteins for the background and one for my main, but had no fill. I wanted that fourth light but didn't want to spend the extra $500 for another Einstein, so I opted to go for two B800's for the background and keep two Einsteins for main and fill. I haven't actually made the swap yet, but I'm hoping it was the right decision.

Under the situations you mentioned I really don't see the need for the Vagabond Mini's. Sure they would be nice but an extension cord provides more reliable power for a whole lot less.

From what I have read in the post mentioned above and another one:https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=995​746&page=2
you may want to consider the Einstein system for stopping action with a flash. That or go with a couple Canon off camera flashes and high speed syncing.

To me it would come down to how often are you going to use your lights for what purpose. AB800 and a medium softbox w/ a reflector would be a great way to start out with your in home studio.... but it might not be the best for taking pictures of ballet dancers jumping through the air if this is something you plan to do a lot of. 580EXII and 430EXII's might be good for high speed syncing but I would much prefer AB800 studio lights for day to day studio shooting.

Remember you don't have to buy everythng at one time. Buy what you need when you know why you need it.

John