Out of focus - Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS USM ver 2

Hi,

I am helping a friend with this Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS USM ver 2.0. He is complaining it is out of focus and not sharp enough. He has a Canon 7D. I would like your opinion on the two pictures below:

thanks in advance.

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I'm looking at the exif data in Opanda and thinking he's in full automatic mode (because of the flash option indicated - is this right, anyone?)

If so, he's not selecting his own focus points and he's at f2.8 and that combination with this subject is focusing on the 'wrong' part of the subject (the high contrast striped sweater) and not giving enough depth of field to cover the face.

Quizzical_Squirrel wrote in post #12148570
I'm looking at the exif data in Opanda and thinking he's in full automatic mode (because of the flash option indicated - is this right, anyone?)

If so, he's not selecting his own focus points and he's at f2.8 and that combination with this subject is focusing on the 'wrong' part of the subject (the high contrast striped sweater) and not giving enough depth of field to cover the face.

thanks for your input. Should he be using f4.0 in this case? I have the raw files. Below is the focus point info:

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Making some educated guesses here about shot 1...

With lens at 70mm (shot 1) and a shooting distance of 8', frame captures 20" x 30" area. DOF at f/2.8 is 4" deep. DOF at f/4 would increase a small amount, to 5.8"
I fail to see any part of the shot truly sharp, so I tend to not think that focus point was wrong! With 70mm lens and APS-C body, 1/125 shutter speed is at the limit of recommended lower shutter speed for hand holding the camera -- but some folks jerk the camera or hold the camera in less stable manner, so even the Rule of Thumb is too slow. Shot 1 might be suffering from camera shake, not missed focus. But the sweater knit seems well defined, so motion blur of the camera is likely not the issue either.

Shot 2 is shot from a closer distance...
With lens at 75mm and a shooting distance of 7', frame captures a 16 x 24" frame area. DOF at f/2.8 is 2.7" deep. Shutter speed being too slow is less likely, since it was shot at 1/250. The sweater knit seems well defined; definitely not motion blur of the camera.

So what accounts for 'not sharp'? It might be expectations of JPG out of the camera. If your friend is accustomed to P&S cameras, the dSLR does not sharpen photos in camera as much as P&S processors do. This is due to the assumption of manufacturers that dSLR users want more CONTROL over how much or how little to sharpen photos, when postprocessing even JPG files out of the camera.

If you edit your profile to 'Image Editing OK' (or reply back giving me permission to post the edited version) I can show you what some sharpening in post processing does to dramatically improve the shot!

Since your friend has a 7D maybe he should try MA? Since the sharp focus is just a tad front in front of the child? Is this the same outcome when hes shooting 200mm? Reason I asked is because the MA "might" help with 70mm but mess up the 200mm.

Wilt wrote in post #12149049
Making some educated guesses here about shot 1...

With lens at 70mm (shot 1) and a shooting distance of 8', frame captures 20" x 30" area. DOF at f/2.8 is 4" deep. DOF at f/4 would increase a small amount, to 5.8"
I fail to see any part of the shot truly sharp, so I tend to not think that focus point was wrong! With 70mm lens and APS-C body, 1/125 shutter speed is at the limit of recommended lower shutter speed for hand holding the camera -- but some folks jerk the camera or hold the camera in less stable manner, so even the Rule of Thumb is too slow. Shot 1 might be suffering from camera shake, not missed focus. But the sweater knit seems well defined, so motion blur of the camera is likely not the issue either.

Shot 2 is shot from a closer distance...
With lens at 75mm and a shooting distance of 7', frame captures a 16 x 24" frame area. DOF at f/2.8 is 2.7" deep. Shutter speed being too slow is less likely, since it was shot at 1/250. The sweater knit seems well defined; definitely not motion blur of the camera.

So what accounts for 'not sharp'? It might be expectations of JPG out of the camera. If your friend is accustomed to P&S cameras, the dSLR does not sharpen photos in camera as much as P&S processors do. This is due to the assumption of manufacturers that dSLR users want more CONTROL over how much or how little to sharpen photos, when postprocessing even JPG files out of the camera.

If you edit your profile to 'Image Editing OK' (or reply back giving me permission to post the edited version) I can show you what some sharpening in post processing does to dramatically improve the shot!

thanks for your input. Yes, you have my permission to edit. Can you tell me what software do you use and what technique?

So, you would shoot faster 1/125 for picture one. what is the rule of thumb for that. As you know this lens is quite heavy, what is the proper way of holding the lens? Also, would you take off the tripod ring?

He is coming from a P&S camera. He was comparing the sharpness to my 70-200 f4.0L is usm.

chenga732 wrote in post #12149191
thanks for your input. Yes, you have my permission to edit. Can you tell me what software do you use and what technique?

So, you would shoot faster 1/125 for picture one. what is the rule of thumb for that. As you know this lens is quite heavy, what is the proper way of holding the lens? Also, would you take off the tripod ring?

First, a section of the original, for comparison...

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO | PHOTOBUCKET ERROR IMAGE

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO | PHOTOBUCKET ERROR IMAGE

Wilt wrote in post #12149227

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO

I just Paint Shop Pro, but Elements works similarly as well as other not-expensive programs (<$100)

Rule of Thumb for handholding the APS-C camera+lens = 1/(FL*1.6)
so this computes to 1/112 for this shot. Again, some folks might be able to shoot at 1/60 handheld with 70mm lens, but other folks might need 1/250 if they are shakey or have bad technique.

Wow, it is sharp compare to the original. Can he use the vendor software, Digital Photo Prof for edit? Within DPP, do you just change the sharpness (default: 4) to higher value?

thanks for your comment.

He can use the dpp. When using dpp, there is also a rgb( i think, its the 2nd one) tab from the top. That also has another section for sharpening to the bottom. He could try adjusting those too.

Mine was just soft. No ff or bf, just soft. And it didn't sharpen up when stopped down. Sent it in to Canon and it's all better.

I might just tell my friend to sent it back. I took a picture outside but I don't know if you can really compare.

Below is the picture:

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If the person shot in Raw I'd be asking how much sharpening was applied before looking to the lens being a problem. ALL Raw files, even taken with the most pristine lens, need to be sharpened due to the anti-aliasing filter present in all Canon (and Nikon, and Sony ...) DSLR's.

I add sharpening as the final step in my workflow.

From what you show above I'm not convinced that there is anything wrong with the lens. The image of the young fellow is also taken at too low a shutter-speed for a candid IMO. I found I had a lot better success taking pictures of my kids (without flash) if I was at 1/200s or faster.

I typically have sharpening set to 7 within DPP, give that a try. with that lens photos should be sharp even at 100% crop.

Wilt wrote in post #12149227
First, a section of the original, for comparison...

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO

I used Paint Shop Pro here, but Elements works similarly, as well as other not-expensive programs (<$100)

Rule of Thumb for handholding the APS-C camera+lens = 1/(FL*1.6)
so this computes to 1/112 for shot 1. Again, some folks might be able to shoot at 1/60 handheld with 70mm lens, but other folks might need 1/250 if they are shakey or have bad technique.

That's really good, what was your workflow, if I may ask?

Something else wrong if MA can't fix it. Try it on anther body. The lens is really sharp. And 1/125 is nothing IMO even at 200mm. You can easily do 1/30 without problems. A quick snapshot from a while back;