Alright, I think I made an ignorant decision...

what about shooting on a monopod or tripod? quite a bit cheaper than a new lens and you get to keep the optically excellent L...

Daship wrote in post #12172003
The lens is great. You are obviously not using it correctly. IS, is totally for noobs. If you shoot fast enough SS you wont ever need IS.

Actually, this may be what I needed. What do you guys that shoot without IS keep your ISO speed at?

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172093
Actually, this may be what I needed. What do you guys that shoot without IS keep your ISO speed at?

...at whatever it needs to be to maintain a high enough shutter speed?

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172093
Actually, this may be what I needed. What do you guys that shoot without IS keep your ISO speed at?

Describe to us the conditions you shoot in and, as has been asked, give us your camera settings that you have had trouble with. That way we can answer this question in an informed way.

I set my ISO according to the conditions to give me a proper image brightness while my aperture and shutter speed are set to get the needed "capture" -- aperture controls depth of field, shutter speed "stops" movement of the subject or the camera (the dork behind the camera). Then you set your ISO to compensate for the low light as needed and still keep the first two as needed.

I shoot a lot outdoors in less-than-ideal conditions so it's pretty common for me to just leave my camera at ISO 1600. Even then things can be a challenge. I typically use a monopod with my "long" setup (a 100-400 with a 1.4x extender, so "effectively 560mm mounted on a 1DM3 body, which handles higher ISOs nicely). I'm always getting pushed by the lighting to slower shutter speeds (much slower than the 1/focal lengthxcrop factor) so I will occasionally up the ISO to 3200. Oh well. Visible noise is there at that point because of the low light but sometimes that's the price you pay to get the shot.

I do like IS on my lenses because when I'm not using a monopod or tripod I apprectiate the bit of help it gives me. You can see the difference when shooting with an IS lens -- you may see a bit of movement until you press the button to focus and then in a short bit the IS kicks in and the image actually visually stabilizes. Sure, if you are able to shoot at a fast shutter speed it won't mean much but, well, like I said, I'm out in all kinds of condiitons so every little bit helps!

tonylong wrote in post #12172213
Describe to us the conditions you shoot in and, as has been asked, give us your camera settings that you have had trouble with. That way we can answer this question in an informed way.

I set my ISO according to the conditions to give me a proper image brightness while my aperture and shutter speed are set to get the needed "capture" -- aperture controls depth of field, shutter speed "stops" movement of the subject or the camera (the dork behind the camera). Then you set your ISO to compensate for the low light as needed and still keep the first two as needed.

I shoot a lot outdoors in less-than-ideal conditions so it's pretty common for me to just leave my camera at ISO 1600. Even then things can be a challenge. I typically use a monopod with my "long" setup (a 100-400 with a 1.4x extender, so "effectively 560mm mounted on a 1DM3 body, which handles higher ISOs nicely). I'm always getting pushed by the lighting to slower shutter speeds (much slower than the 1/focal lengthxcrop factor) so I will occasionally up the ISO to 3200. Oh well. Visible noise is there at that point because of the low light but sometimes that's the price you pay to get the shot.

I do like IS on my lenses because when I'm not using a monopod or tripod I apprectiate the bit of help it gives me. You can see the difference when shooting with an IS lens -- you may see a bit of movement until you press the button to focus and then in a short bit the IS kicks in and the image actually visually stabilizes. Sure, if you are able to shoot at a fast shutter speed it won't mean much but, well, like I said, I'm out in all kinds of condiitons so every little bit helps!

I think you've pretty much told me what I need to know. I experience the most problems in shade once the sun is low in the sky. I try not to go past ISO 800, but I guess that the real problem isn't a lack of IS, I think I need to be more willing to raise my ISO (I normally keep it really low).

I understand that this lens is superb, which is why I bought it at first. I will probably notice the same, if not worse, sort of functionality out of most affordable telephotos.

I guess I just need to spend some time with this lens more to fully understand it.

Sorry for my beginner questions but thanks for the help...

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172256
I think you've pretty much told me what I need to know. I experience the most problems in shade once the sun is low in the sky. I try not to go past ISO 800, but I guess that the real problem isn't a lack of IS, I think I need to be more willing to raise my ISO (I normally keep it really low).

That's definitely an issue. I was once really afraid to push my ISO past 200. 400 was really the limit. Now, I very frequently have the camera at 1600 when I quite simply don't have the light. Having a noisy shot is far better than having no shot at all.

Daship wrote in post #12172003
The lens is great. You are obviously not using it correctly. IS, is totally for noobs. If you shoot fast enough SS you wont ever need IS.

What a load of rubbish.

Of course, you are correct that "If you shoot fast enough SS you wont ever need IS", however the IS is for all those many times you are in low light and can't get the shutter speed high enough, or when you specifically want a slow shutter speed (shooting propellor driven aircraft or helicopters, for example, where a slow SS is needed for good prop / rotor blur).

To suggest that if you can't get a fast enough shutter speed, you are "doing it wrong" (as opposed to just not having enough light) or that IS is just for beginners, is just talking out of your backside.

Tommydigi wrote in post #12171953
Consider what you may possibly be doing wrong before you buy or sell. Try a monopod too

This, if you master the lenses that you have and can keep getting good results with what you have then you will know exactly what you want later and wont have to buy and sell a crap load of time before you settle on a single product.

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172093
Actually, this may be what I needed. What do you guys that shoot without IS keep your ISO speed at?

This is a badly formed question. The best answer for this would be to set the camera to Shutter priority mode, this is where you will want to play and learn with this lens. Here you can set the shutter speed you want. 125-160 at the 70mm end and up to 400 on the outer end should be a good starting point. then let the camera tell you that you can't get a faster Aperture and that you need to raise the ISO. This will be a good learning point to help you understand conditions that you need to be aware of to get the results that you want in the end. It's not like your lens is going to drop out the bottom in value so it would be in your best interests to learn what you need to be doing to get images that are sharp and stable before you move onto another lens.

I personally have the T2i and there is no reason you shouldn't be cranking that body out to ISO 200, 400 or even 800; hell 1600 is still a good image as well, I don't often use the higher ISOs unless it's something that I'm not all that worried about and would rather just get the shot versus not getting it. As long as you expose the image right you will not have to worry about grain. Get it right in camera and only do minor improvements in post. Once you learn to get the right exposure in camera first you'll be so much better off in everything that you do.

TheBurningCrown wrote in post #12172202
...at whatever it needs to be to maintain a high enough shutter speed?

refer to my above OP.

Also you should look into the various body supporting techniques that you can use to get yourself more stable so you can lower that shutter speed and get a slower ISO (closer to 100).

sandpiper wrote in post #12172277
What a load of rubbish.

Of course, you are correct that "If you shoot fast enough SS you wont ever need IS", however the IS is for all those many times you are in low light and can't get the shutter speed high enough, or when you specifically want a slow shutter speed (shooting propellor driven aircraft or helicopters, for example, where a slow SS is needed for good prop / rotor blur).

To suggest that if you can't get a fast enough shutter speed, you are "doing it wrong" (as opposed to just not having enough light) or that IS is just for beginners, is just talking out of your backside.

I thought so too... I used this lens to pan at a racing event before. Of course, no monopod, no IS, and an overcast day means only about half of the photos turned out.

I normally don't go over 400 on my ISO either... I should get out of that habit haha.

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172290
I thought so too... I used this lens to pan at a racing event before. Of course, no monopod, no IS, and an overcast day means only about half of the photos turned out.

I normally don't go over 400 on my ISO either... I should get out of that habit haha.

refer to my prior post, I have your same body and you shouldn't be afraid of the faster ISOs

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172290
I thought so too... I used this lens to pan at a racing event before. Of course, no monopod, no IS, and an overcast day means only about half of the photos turned out.

I normally don't go over 400 on my ISO either... I should get out of that habit haha.

Hmm, panning is a special situation -- you typically want a slow shutter speed to show motion in the backgroung, and a narrow aperture to keep your subject in focus. Also, to enable the slow shutter speed you don't want a high ISO. Panning is a skill where it is all about keeping your focus point where it needs to stay while the slow shutter speed shows the background motion.

In other words, it's off the track in this discussion about low-light shooting!

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172093
What do you guys that shoot without IS keep your ISO speed at?

TheBurningCrown wrote in post #12172202
...at whatever it needs to be to maintain a high enough shutter speed?

Yeah, I always aim to keep the ISO as low as possible, whilst keeping an eye on my SS and aperture to ensure they are both suitable. If they aren't where I want them, then I boost ISO so that they are. In low light I will generally set Av and pick the widest aperture that will still give me the DoF that I need (this will often be wide open, but not always) then that lets the shutter speed be as fast as it can be as the light changes. I keep watching it though and, if it falls too low, will boost ISO to bring it back up.

I have older bodies than you (20D, 40D and 5Dc), and they all max out at 1600 (without using expansion) so that is as high as I can go. I am happy to use 1600 though if it is needed to keep the SS up. Your newer body will allow higher ISOs I am sure. Don't be afraid to use them, a little noise is far preferable to a blurry picture due to inadequate SS.

slapshot36227 wrote in post #12172290
I thought so too... I used this lens to pan at a racing event before. Of course, no monopod, no IS, and an overcast day means only about half of the photos turned out.

I normally don't go over 400 on my ISO either... I should get out of that habit haha.

tonylong wrote in post #12174487
Hmm, panning is a special situation -- you typically want a slow shutter speed to show motion in the backgroung, and a narrow aperture to keep your subject in focus. Also, to enable the slow shutter speed you don't want a high ISO. Panning is a skill where it is all about keeping your focus point where it needs to stay while the slow shutter speed shows the background motion.

In other words, it's off the track in this discussion about low-light shooting!

I'm not sure it's "off track" in this discussion, as the OP just mentioned unsatisfactory results and that these were worse in the shade. Yes, low light is clearly a factor sometimes for them, but they also mentioned the results whilst panning, so that is an issue for them.

To be fair to the OP, "only half" the panning pictures turning out isn't a bad result sometimes. When deliberately going for motion blur with slow shutter speeds it is very easy to get a number of shots where the subject also shows some blur, the panning technique takes some skill and practice to get a decent rate of success. Indeed, as skill improves you may find yourself going more extreme on the SS and so getting better results (more blur where you want it) but not increasing the number of keepers.

If I have half coming out sharp, I will probably drop my shutter speed a bit more and get even less coming out, but those that do will be better. To go back to the aircraft prop blur issue I mentioned, I like to shoot at 1/125 with fast warbirds(and may even drop slower) and at those SS I don't have a 50% success rate (maybe 30% acceptably sharp, but still a little soft when viewed 100%) but the odd one that does come out tack sharp, with great prop blur, is a keeper for sure. I can increase my success rate by increasing the SS to 1/160 or 1/250 (at which point they should pretty much all be sharp) but the prop blur is less attractive. I would rather end up with 2 or 3 shots I am really pleased with, than lots of quite nice ones. So, don't get hung up on success ratios when pushing the envelope, the aim is to get a great shot. Of course, if you need to get a shot (maybe of something that you won't get to shoot again) then get some 'bankers' in the camera at a safe SS first, then work on gradually dropping the SS to get more motion blur to show the speed.

IS can be useful in many situations (I find it invaluable) but there are also many where it doesn't help much (sports such as football etc, where you need a higher SS to prevent the players suffering from blur for example). If you can boost your ISO more to bring your SS up, then you may not need IS. You need to consider your personal requirements.

I need it for low light work (I have often found myself shooting at 1/50th, wide open and ISO maxed out, with a 300 or 400mm focal length, in a situation where tripods are not practical) and also using mode 2 to stabilise it whilst panning with very fast moving aircraft at a slow SS to increase prop blur.

You have a great lens there, but if you really need IS then getting the 55-250 IS may be a great idea. It is a lens with very good IQ (not quite up there with the L, but if it gets you a sharp shot and the L doesn't ...!!) and covers the range you are using. More importantly it is relatively cheap and you may not need to sell your L to get it, giving you the option to use the L when conditions allow and default to the 55-250 when you need to have IS. You may decide that you don't need two ;lenses covering that range, so you could swap you L for something else (maybe a used 400 f/5.6 prime to give you more reach).

Daship wrote in post #12172003
The lens is great. You are obviously not using it correctly. IS, is totally for noobs. If you shoot fast enough SS you wont ever need IS.

IS, even with the high shutter speeds, is still a great tool when focusing/framing

I will regularly use ISO 3200 on my T2i to keep my shutter speeds up. Here are a couple sample of ISO 3200 with little to no noise reduction other than the presets. They are not perfect, but very usable for personal use.

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Turn your ISO up to get the shutter speed you need. You CAN fix noise. You CAN NOT fix blurry!