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Thread started 06 Apr 2011 (Wednesday) 19:45
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do these images/crops look too soft? paranoid about my 7D taking soft pictures

 
rhys216
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Apr 19, 2011 07:49 |  #91
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Maybe the 7D has a tendency to have a similar issue I had with my 50D.

I sent off my 50D for calibration as focus was unpredictable, sometimes focus would be spot on, sometimes slightly off, so I tried micro-adjust to get the camera/lens sharp at one focus distance, but then it would be soft at another focus distance.

The next day, I tested the camera again, and the MA settings used the previous day were soft at the same distance they were previously sharp, I thought to myself WTF, am I going mad!
So I played around a little more, and found the camera no longer needed any MA, "it's cured" or so I thought...

After about half an hour of taking pic's I noticed my pictures were soft again? "OMG! what is up with this damn thing!, I did remember I slightly knocked the camera, but it was barely anything"

Sent it off to Lehmann (external link) for calibration, and one late afternoon they tell me "focus is bang on, both the camera and lens"
Again I thought to my self 'Am I actually going loopy?' But I quickly remembered my 550D never gave me any issues, so I insisted the camera's AF was indeed duff but maybe the issue occurs during use??? so I emailed in a few picture samples that I documented prior to shipping showing the issue.

The technician looked at it again, and called me early in the morning the next day (about 9:00am). Again he said AF was "bang on" but he then said something interesting, from what I can recall, he said the 50D's sensor sits on springs, and my 50's sensor was at the edge of tolerance, so the springs were not very compressed.
He said he would do the fix, reset the AF, and calibrate if needed.

Anyway I got the camera back today, and it focuses perfectly, slightly shaper than my already sharp 550D.
So what I think was happening, was the sensor itself was moving very slightly at the slightest bump or knock, and messing up the AF...

100% crop after calibration @ F2 with 85mm 1.8
Zero sharpening added in PP

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TeamSpeed
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Apr 19, 2011 08:02 |  #92

I didn't think the sensor moved? If it does move, it is only due to the sensor-clean mode. Interesting...


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artyman
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Apr 19, 2011 10:16 |  #93

I think the sensor has to 'float' to utilise the vibration cleaning system.


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gordholio
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Apr 19, 2011 10:24 |  #94

VERY interesting indeed. Thanks for the update, rhys, and good to know it's working for you. As I mentioned here, mine went off to Canon last week, along with a highly detailed 1000-word explanation of the symptoms. Fingers crossed.




  
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rhys216
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Apr 19, 2011 11:21 |  #95
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Thanks, hope it works out for you as well, if the technician says there isn't a problem then, I would insist that there is a problem similar to how I did, I also advised the technician my 550D did not exhibit the same issue (this will help the technician rule out user error and take you more seriously), as there's every chance a busy technician hasn't read all the way through your 1000-word description.

Best of Luck

Below is another example from today at F2, this one had a hint of sharpening.
Focus point was at the inside corner of his eye.

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(The image is supposed to look a little warm)
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TeamSpeed
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Apr 19, 2011 11:27 |  #96

artyman wrote in post #12252457 (external link)
I think the sensor has to 'float' to utilise the vibration cleaning system.

Ultrasonic vibrations don't necessarily require anything to float on springs as described above, and also, it is the low pass filter chassis that vibrates, not the sensor itself, from the diagrams and white papers that I have read. I could have misunderstood them though. Maybe its this low pass filter that if out of tolerance, introduces softness in the image?


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rhys216
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Apr 19, 2011 11:44 |  #97
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TeamSpeed wrote in post #12252941 (external link)
Ultrasonic vibrations don't necessarily require anything to float on springs as described above, and also, it is the low pass filter chassis that vibrates, not the sensor itself, from the diagrams and white papers that I have read. I could have misunderstood them though. Maybe its this low pass filter that if out of tolerance, introduces softness in the image?

Don't know, but that's just how the technician described the problem to me, maybe he was using 'layman's terms' or something, also he said it wasn't 'out of tolerance' but on the edge of Canon's tolerance, which he said he knew that this sometimes caused problems with AF, which I found was interesting as well, but any way, this wasn't an issue micro-adjust or calibration itself could fix.




  
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Apr 19, 2011 11:55 |  #98

Some pics to help describe the area in question...

http://www.whatdigital​camera.com …789/low-pass-filters.html (external link)

http://a.img-dpreview.com …Whatsnew/selfcl​eaning.jpg (external link)

For contrast, here is a D7000 sensor/low pass filter image. :)

http://www.dvxuser.com …0-optical-low-pass-filter (external link)

If there are any adjustments, then I imagine that the whole sensor platform can be moved forward or back. I remember that on the 30D, there was a torx screw inside the mirror box that folks were adjusting to improve their IQ.

If nothing else, it is fun looking at the one part that inevitably gets all the posts into frenzied discussions of IQ. I would love to see this production in person, it would be very cool.


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rhys216
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Apr 19, 2011 12:44 |  #99
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I re-done one of the focus tests I did before then camera went in for calibration/sensor adjustment.
The lighting is different due to the different time of day, but still, it shows the issues I was having when my camera was playing up.

First up, Zero micro adjust, Lol and to think this 'sensor tolerance' was only on the 'edge' of tolerance.
Note: that focus would be sharp if the image was half the distance away.

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Now, with +/- 15 Micro Adjust - Focusing was inconsistent, sometimes it was sharper than this, sometimes even softer.

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Now, with +/- 15 Micro Adjust - This was when I got fairly lucky.

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This is what it's like now with ZERO Micro Adjust - Focusing is now very consistent, 9/10 times focus is sharp, the 1 time it isn't I'm happy to chalk up to 'user error'.

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jwcdds
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Apr 19, 2011 13:17 |  #100

I'm curious how the image will look if you take it again during the same time of day as the pre-calibration. Looks like there was a bit of back-lighting from the window the first time. And the post-calibration looks like it was taken with indoor lighting instead.

I can only assume the results would be consistent with the post-calibration photo but curious to see if time of day and difference in lighting would have altered how your 50D responded.

Either way, it sounds/seems like it's better so that's all that matters. :D


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Apr 19, 2011 15:59 |  #101

Quizzical_Squirrel wrote in post #12217106 (external link)
I think it must be your camera, Gordholio because like Magnus's photo, that's a pretty standard squirrel sharpness picture for me (and I take a lot of them :lol: )

If my photobucket wasnt down id share the Squirrel sharpness photo i have...its quite bad...

My issue has been trying to track down where the issue is, its either my 7D or my 100-400....and the problem is its struggling at slightly longer distances and focusing on "Details" lets say and randomly front/back focusing....

Looking through my archive i have some shots done with the combo from about a year ago that look fine, But then between that time and about August last year something happened and the 100-400 at f/8, 1/1000+ and ISO800 will not churn out a truely "sharp" shot anymore, or the sharp bit of the image is on the left side (Which actually makes it sound like my lens is decentered) Now the fun part is as i said it has all these issues at longer distances...

If i take a picture of something thats closer to the MFD its fine and sharpish, But still not as "wow" as the lens used to be...I've done my best checking for a focus issue and at closer distances the focus needs no microadjustment, But the results are still pretty bad

I'm not getting into posting my examples as my photobucket is currently tanked bandwidth wise...And i didnt even keep the focus tests and etc (Because i dont need a second opinion, it focused where i told it to, that is the area of the image rendered sharpest, sharpest is of course, a relative thing, i even tried live view manual focusing and cant get it to look any sharper)

I'll say if anything i've been trying to say its not the 7D, Simply because it works fine with all my other lenses and i've never had an issue with it even shooting distant subjects, oh and also because my gut tells me its the 100-400


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george ­ m ­ w
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Apr 19, 2011 16:30 |  #102

.....but hell, when you drop this much coin on a camera and don't get the same level of sharpness you were accustomed to with a camera costing half as much, it just seems wrong.

....And I'm still not getting it. And I'm not talking ISO noise either. I'm saying that it NEVER focuses perfectly.....

Why fight it ? I'd sell that puppy on down the road and buy something else. And that 'something else' would a used one series. Buy a one series and use it for a week. Most likely you'll love it and never want to shoot with anything else. You 'might' not like it, but if you buy it right, and just keep it for a short time, you can sell it at little to no loss.


regards, george w

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do these images/crops look too soft? paranoid about my 7D taking soft pictures
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