Using off-camera Speedlite as key and pop-up flash as fill

The 60D will let me control the 430EXII wirelessly, and adjust the power of the Speedlite and the pop-up independently. However, I nave never used them both together; I just use the Speedlite by itself and never use the pop-up.

Today it occurred to me that I might use the pop-up for a little bit of fill while using the Speedlite as the key light.

Any advice on this? Maybe use some tissue paper as a little diffuser tent over the pop-up? Even a "Don't bother, you won't like it" would be appreciated, if that's the case.

[edit] In this specific case, I've got some portraits to shoot this weekend, and I don't really feel geared for it. I have three medium-small continuous-light softboxes (usually used for video, light output is not adjustable), the 430EXII, a beauty dish that fits the 430EXII, a Lastolite TriGrip diffuser/reflector. I'm just trying to make sure I'm familiar with all my tools and use them as effectively as I can.

You don't need tissue paper. With ETTL, use ratios or individual Flash Exposure Compensation to let the 430EX II do most of the work. Just go through the camera flash menu and choose what you want to do.

You can also do it in manual mode. Set the camera flash to something like 1/16 and the 430EX to something like 1/4.


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Thanks. I'll experiment and see what I can do.

Trying to diffuse the popup probably wont improve things any. You need to make the light source bigger and that can only happen with a big bounce card of some sort, but those are not popup friendly. Just use it bare.

As seen in the post a couple up, you can set the ratio of the pop up to slave 1:8 to 8:1 or you can set the pop up to preflash and trip the slave and it won't provide any fill at all. It's stuff that those of us who grew up w/ flash bulbs marvel about. Pretty slick.

So far, I've been using the pop-up as preflash only. Somehow the wireless IR signal is magically transmitted from the pop-up flash to the Speedlite, so the popup fires every time, usually right before the shutter opens. I don't understand exactly how it works from a technical viewpoint - I assumed it would be done by an IR transmitter on the body. I suppose if I'm using it as fill, then the popup will fire twice - once to signal the slave, and a second time to fill.

nathancarter wrote in post #12184075
So far, I've been using the pop-up as preflash only. Somehow the wireless IR signal is magically transmitted from the pop-up flash to the Speedlite, so the popup fires every time, usually right before the shutter opens. I don't understand exactly how it works from a technical viewpoint - I assumed it would be done by an IR transmitter on the body. I suppose if I'm using it as fill, then the popup will fire twice - once to signal the slave, and a second time to fill.

There is no IR with the pop-flash or body. It's all visible light pulses. Only the ST-E2 uses IR from what I have read.

One more thought: it seems there's no way to set the wireless flash to 2nd-curtain. Am I missing anything, or it it simply not possible due to the way the firing signal is transmitted?

nathancarter wrote in post #12184530
One more thought: it seems there's no way to set the wireless flash to 2nd-curtain. Am I missing anything, or it it simply not possible due to the way the firing signal is transmitted?

No, no way. I dont think you can even do that with the canon wireless setup, but especially not using a dummy slave in manual.

nathancarter wrote in post #12184075
So far, I've been using the pop-up as preflash only. Somehow the wireless IR signal is magically transmitted from the pop-up flash to the Speedlite, so the popup fires every time, usually right before the shutter opens. I don't understand exactly how it works from a technical viewpoint - I assumed it would be done by an IR transmitter on the body. I suppose if I'm using it as fill, then the popup will fire twice - once to signal the slave, and a second time to fill.

It's still using infrared signals within that flash of light. There's no filter on the popup flash to filter out all the other light, but it's still sending signals through IR. Obviously the popup may need to be used as a regular flash from time to time so Canon can't block any of the light. Having a separate controller built in would cost more money, so this is the best solution for Canon.

The 2 flashes will be quick enough that you won't notice 2 separate flashes.

klr.b wrote in post #12184715
The 2 flashes will be quick enough that you won't notice 2 separate flashes.

You're right that it's fast enough that I don't notice the two separate flashes - but it's slow enough that my cat will half-blink between the signal and the actual flash

I have so many pictures of cat with her eyes half-closed.