What Does Chargeback Mean, Should I be concerned?

I've read a few posts where people have been charged back and scammed. Just what does chargeback mean and is there anything you can do to prevent this? Some folks say Paypal can't help you in that regard. Thanks

James Emory wrote in post #12245287
I've read a few posts where people have been charged back and scammed. Just what does chargeback mean and is there anything you can do to prevent this? Some folks say Paypal can't help you in that regard. Thanks

http://www.google.com/​search?q=chargeback

correct. nothing much you can do about it.

HyperYagami wrote in post #12245414
http://www.google.com/​search?q=chargeback

correct. nothing much you can do about it.

Thank you. So it seems like one would be reasonably safe using Paypal since you have to approve any funds taken from your Paypal account. So if the seller is selling something for 50.00 and you send 50.00 through Paypal, then the seller cannot come back asking for 60.00 if you only approved 50.00. Am I thinking correctly?

You're missing the point.

A chargeback is something a buyer does after the fact. In legitimate situations, it means that the buyer didn't receive what they paid for, and are using their credit card's protection. In a non-legit situation, it means the buyer is using the chargeback to scam the seller. Paypal doesn't back up sellers in this instance. They may say they do, but their policy is to never lose money, so they'll take it from the seller regardless of the documentation the seller has. They even send the seller to collections as per their policy that I'm sure somewhere states that the seller protection doesn't work if paypal will lose money.

James Emory wrote in post #12245539
Thank you. So it seems like one would be reasonably safe using Paypal since you have to approve any funds taken from your Paypal account. So if the seller is selling something for 50.00 and you send 50.00 through Paypal, then the seller cannot come back asking for 60.00 if you only approved 50.00. Am I thinking correctly?

Yes ... that much of what you said is correct.

What most here are complaining about is the chargeback going the other way. The buyer receives the purchased item, then "claims" to PayPal that he never received it, or that it isn't what he expected, and PayPal then returns the sellers money back to the buyer. He now has your item, and your money!

He may be required by PayPal to return "your item", but there seems to be little recourse if he just sends back a rock instead.

Note: I have had good experiences with PayPal, including a claim dispute recently for non-shippment of a purchase. However, there are many on these forums who have not been so fortunate. It seem PayPal (and eBay) have policies in place to protect the buyers, and scammers have figured out the steps to take to exploit these policies to steal money from honest sellers.

-howard

Mmm, sounds like that is the reason some sellers insist on a money order for payment. Obviously they have been scammed at one time or another. The problem I see here is that if the seller dupes the buyer, the buyers only comeback would be to sue the seller. Interesting to know. What led to this question is that I read here on POTN that a buyer bought a lens that was said to be in good working order (a Canon L lens). When he got the lens the MF did not work. He sent the lens to Canon for repair and Canon told him the lens is over 10 years old and they no longer repair it. Outside of paying for a lawyer to try and get his money back, he's pretty much screwed.

Sauer Grapes wrote in post #12245591
You're missing the point.

A chargeback is something a buyer does after the fact. In legitimate situations, it means that the buyer didn't receive what they paid for, and are using their credit card's protection. In a non-legit situation, it means the buyer is using the chargeback to scam the seller. Paypal doesn't back up sellers in this instance. They may say they do, but their policy is to never lose money, so they'll take it from the seller regardless of the documentation the seller has. They even send the seller to collections as per their policy that I'm sure somewhere states that the seller protection doesn't work if paypal will lose money.

Mmm, I see where this could get ugly. Obvioulsy it is important to check feedback on the buyer/seller.

hfgarris wrote in post #12245624
Yes ... that much of what you said is correct.

What most here are complaining about is the chargeback going the other way. The buyer receives the purchased item, then "claims" to PayPal that he never received it, or that it isn't what he expected, and PayPal then returns the sellers money back to the buyer. He now has your item, and your money!

He may be required by PayPal to return "your item", but there seems to be little recourse if he just sends back a rock instead.

Note: I have had good experiences with PayPal, including a claim dispute recently for non-shippment of a purchase. However, there are many on these forums who have not been so fortunate. It seem PayPal (and eBay) have policies in place to protect the buyers, and scammers have figured out the steps to take to exploit these policies to steal money from honest sellers.

-howard

James Emory wrote in post #12245659
Mmm, sounds like that is the reason some sellers insist on a money order for payment. Obviously they have been scammed at one time or another. The problem I see here is that if the seller dupes the buyer, the buyers only comeback would be to sue the seller. Interesting to know. What led to this question is that I read here on POTN that a buyer bought a lens that was said to be in good working order (a Canon L lens). When he got the lens the MF did not work. He sent the lens to Canon for repair and Canon told him the lens is over 10 years old and they no longer repair it. Outside of paying for a lawyer to try and get his money back, he's pretty much screwed.

Not exactly, in that situation the buyer could do a chargeback if they used their credit card in paypal. That's what chargebacks are for, and the correct way to use them (when a buyer scams you and you can't get a refund any other way).

Sauer Grapes wrote in post #12246335
Not exactly, in that situation the buyer could do a chargeback if they used their credit card in paypal. That's what chargebacks are for, and the correct way to use them (when a buyer scams you and you can't get a refund any other way).

That is a big advantage to using your credit card rather than available funds or your bank account. The credit card companies have more "clout" with PayPal than you do.

If a scamming seller removes the funds so they aren't available for chargeback, PayPal apparently tells the victim buyer that they are "unable to recover your funds ... sorry!). However, the CC company will assess THEIR PAYEE, who is PayPal, and take the funds back on behalf of the victim buyer regardless of what PayPal says.

One would think that the 3% fees that PayPal collects would be used to buy insurance, or self insure, so they could make good on their published "safety guarantee" for both the buyer and seller, but they apparently just keep that money for themselves. They are never dealing with PayPal money if there is a loss ... it is either the buyers money, or the sellers money. If it is no longer available for payback, you are out of luck ... "Sorry"!

-howard

hfgarris wrote in post #12246935
That is a big advantage to using your credit card rather than available funds or your bank account. The credit card companies have more "clout" with PayPal than you do.

If a scamming seller removes the funds so they aren't available for chargeback, PayPal apparently tells the victim buyer that they are "unable to recover your funds ... sorry!). However, the CC company will assess THEIR PAYEE, who is PayPal, and take the funds back on behalf of the victim buyer regardless of what PayPal says.

One would think that the 3% fees that PayPal collects would be used to buy insurance, or self insure, so they could make good on their published "safety guarantee" for both the buyer and seller, but they apparently just keep that money for themselves. They are never dealing with PayPal money if there is a loss ... it is either the buyers money, or the sellers money. If it is no longer available for payback, you are out of luck ... "Sorry"!

-howard

Exactly! And this is the reason Paypal doesn't want you to use CC when you make a payment.

alpha_1976 wrote in post #12246954
Exactly! And this is the reason Paypal doesn't want you to use CC when you make a payment.

Yeah ... they do make it difficult to find with no way to set it as the default!

hfgarris wrote in post #12246992
Yeah ... they do make it difficult to find with no way to set it as the default!

It can be done though, correct? I was thinking of linking my Paypal to a Visa debit card and never keep any money in that account the debit card is linked to. Just put enough in the account to cover whatever I buy. Right now my Paypal is linked to one of my bank accounts. I'm starting not to like that idea.

James Emory wrote in post #12247084
It can be done though, correct? I was thinking of linking my Paypal to a Visa debit card and never keep any money in that account the debit card is linked to. Just put enough in the account to cover whatever I buy. Right now my Paypal is linked to one of my bank accounts. I'm starting not to like that idea.

You can set up your PayPal account on a credit card only, but getting the money back out might be a problem. You need a way to transfer received money back to your bank account, unless you want to keep it in your PayPal account which is a really bad idea!

Although the debit card with an empty account is probably workable, I don't think you will have the assistance of Visa in resolving the dispute that you have with using a credit card. With a credit card, it is Visa's money at stake until you pay, and they usually limit your loss. Thus it is in their interest to get the money back and they have the clout to do so. With a "debit" account, it is your money, with no backing from the bank or Visa. So you are out the whole loss with no real support from anyone else in the event of a scam.

hfgarris wrote in post #12247172
You can set up your PayPal account on a credit card only, but getting the money back out might be a problem. You need a way to transfer received money back to your bank account, unless you want to keep it in your PayPal account which is a really bad idea!

Although the debit card with an empty account is probably workable, I don't think you will have the assistance of Visa in resolving the dispute that you have with using a credit card. With a credit card, it is Visa's money at stake until you pay, and they usually limit your loss. Thus it is in their interest to get the money back and they have the clout to do so. With a "debit" account, it is your money, with no backing from the bank or Visa. So you are out the whole loss with no real support from anyone else in the event of a scam.

I believe you are absolutely correct in your statement. Will just be careful as I have been in the past with who I buy something from. So far I have had no problems with POTN members. Thanks a lot for your input.