Newbie videographer looking for pointers

hey david,

just a question. the line in for the mic on the h4n is the same line out to a headset. will it introduce noise into the mix if i use a wire splitter? one for VMP line-in and the split as a line-out to headset?

i tested the VMP on the h4n and since i dont have a 1/8" splitter, i had to listen to the file by unplugging the VMP and swap in my headset.

let me know if splitting that one 1/8" plug would introduce noise and/or if its even possible since it will make the port work double: line in and out at the same time.

Panda_stunter wrote in post #12435155
yeah, im getting the microboom pole from rode as well, but as of right now, they are out of stock...at least B&H is out of stock. i havent check amazon yet.

At just over 6 feet that boom pole is really going to have you close in to the shot, you will eat up 30” of it just holding the pole leaving you with under 4 foot of pole to work with, also with aluminum you should never fully extend the sections as the pole can creak when it bends creating a rather annoying sound which even a shock mounted microphone can pick up, it’s much better to leave a few inches of each section within the other when extending the pole as that makes it considerable less prone to bending and creaking.

Also with a boom keep in mind you need some form of an amp or mixer for the boom operator to connect his headphones to so he can monitor the microphone he is aiming in real time and a bag or belt clip for the operator to carry the amp around with him.

Wayne

robtk wrote in post #12415258
question about disabling AGC on a 5D (without ML). i set my audio to manual, but i know little about audio. chippy (or anyone else), how do you decide where to set the tick mark on the audio scale?

Withthat body you want to keep your peaks at around -12dB.

Wayne

Thanks for the tip, Wayne!

As for a mixer, i know the h4n isn't really considered a mixer, but that's what I'm going to use for external recording. Would that be good enough?

Thing with the h4n, the line input for the mic, is the same as the line output for the headphones. Would it be possible if the port is split up with a splitter. Would that introduce noise in the audio? Or is that even possible? Basically, what I'm trying to say is using a splitter to the port and using that splitter so I can use a headphone and mic for that port. Is that possible? And if it is possible, would that introduce noise to the audio?

I'm only asking if it's possible since the port would work double, input and output at the same time.

Panda_stunter wrote in post #12440955
Thanks for the tip, Wayne!

As for a mixer, i know the h4n isn't really considered a mixer, but that's what I'm going to use for external recording. Would that be good enough?

Since I do not own a H4N and was not sure if the headphone jack was active during recording (it should be but I am not going to assume) I contacted Samson and their tech support confirmed you can use the headphone output on the H4N for monitoring what the unit is recording, so with that in mind you would connect the microphone to the recorder and use it to amplify the audio and provide a feed to your headphones for monitoring what you are recording.

Also headphones will work considerably better than earbuds and if you use headphones it will be necessary to get yourself a set of over the ear “closed back” headphones, on the ear headphones will work in a pinch but really let in too much background noise tempting one to push up the volume and then they let out too much sound which if the microphone picks up will go into feedback and open back headphones are even worse and are really a good way to get into trouble.

Wayne

ben_r_ wrote in post #12280639
Sigh... I feel like such a child in this video and audio world. Im pretty good when it comes to photography, but this stuff is literally all brand new to me.

Believe it or not there are numerous parallels between excellent photography and excellent audio.

A lens is to a camera what a microphone is to audio, a wide lens brings in a broader picture and if one is not careful as a photographer it will also bring in a lot of trash, that is if the photographer fails to pay attention not only to the subject but what is within the broader spectrum of the foreground and the background that the subject is within and if that happens the shot fails and the same applies to cardioid and omni microphones.

Conversely a long shotgun microphone like a telephoto lens has a narrower pickup pattern and again like a tele on a tight shot if the operator fails to “pay attention” and the subject moves out of the frame or another person begins speaking an adjustment is needed to maintain the frame be it audio or visual.

Generally speaking from best to worse I would pick a microphone this way.

First choice would be a decent shotgun on a boom overhead in the hands of an operator who knows how to work the boom.

Second choice same setup with the boom held low.

Third choice if possible would be to carefully lavaliere the talent.

And if that failed then utilize a couple carefully placed cardioids and mix for the best sound.

And if all that was unacceptable to the producer I would hand him the script a box of gear and sit back in the shade and watch him try to do better.

For what it is worth short (12’ or less) shotgun microphones commonly used in ENG and those such as the Rode Videomic need to be within three feet of the subject (at 90 degrees) to pull good audio, after that they quite often become like a wide lens aimed at a distant subject.

Here’s something to think about, since audio is the greater portion of most productions the budget based against the quality desired is actually more important for audio than the money spent on the camera/visual.

Then ask yourself this how long does it take before you click off of a video where the audio is chock full of echos, background noise, varying in volume and is hard or distorted sounding, the result for most people can be measured in seconds if not milliseconds.

Then go slowly, research carefully and observe what others are using successfully before spending another dime, it is so much better to have a few precious tools in your kit that gets used every time you work than a box full of inexpensive but useless junk that simply collects dust.

Wayne

Thanks for the specific answer, Wayne! Both you and David are big help to us newbies!

As for my question, sorry I didn't specify what mic I'm going to be using. I'm going to use a rode videomic pro, though the pro part is really just marketing. The rode vmp is a 1/8"/3.5mm jack. Im looking for an 1/8" female to xlr male adapter so the mic goes to an xlr input on the h4n, unfortunately there's none that I can find. And add to that, the h4n only has one 1/8" port. My question was if splitting the port to do double duty, input and output, would that be possible.

Thanks for the tips again, Wayne! It's greatly appreciated by newbs like me! If you ever come to Vegas, let me know and I'll buy you a brew or two!

Panda_stunter wrote in post #12441833
Thanks for the specific answer, Wayne! Both you and David are big help to us newbies! The rode vmp is a 1/8"/3.5mm jack. Im looking for an 1/8" female to xlr male adapter so the mic goes to an xlr input on the h4n, unfortunately there's none that I can find.

This adapter will take a standard stereo 3.5mm output and adapt it to two XLR’s, now the output of the Rode is dual mono so you really only need to connect one xlr to the H2n but you have both should you ever need to adapt a stereo output to the H2n as well.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com/c/product/160630​-REG/Hosa_Technology_CY​X_402M_Stereo_Mini_Pho​ne_Male_to.html

Now the only problem is you have two male 3.5 mm connectors so just add a gender bender and you are good to go.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com/c/product/252354​-REG/Hosa_Technology_GM​M_303_GMM303_Mini_Fema​le_to.html

Wayne

Cool, thanks Wayne! That's what I needed.

So with the vmp split into two xlr, would that give me stereo output even though the vmp is a mono?

I can use the mono input from the vmp and split it on post and make it stereo. But with this 3.5mm split into two XLRs, I'm wondering if that would actually give me stereo pre-post.

Okay, back for some more punishment!

After doing a whole lot more reading and watching/listening to many comparisons, Im now leaning more towards a Rode NTG-2 mic coupled with a Sony PCM-D50.

I had originally intended to use the Zoom H4n with something like a VMP, but after hearing quite a few audio test differences between the VideoMic Pro and the NTG-2 I really considered the NTG-2 a superior mic. And then when I started hearing the tests of the NTG-2 in a Rode Blimp, I was really hooked. I found a good deal on a used NTG-2 with XLR to 1/8" cable and shock mount, for less than a VideoMic Pro and bought it.

Then I learned of the low audio gain levels when using the NTG-2 with the Zoom H4n. So I started looking closer at the other options for a portable recorder. The Sony PCM-D50 is probably the most well loved portable digital recorder I found. The pre-amps are considerably better than on the H4n or Tascam DR-100, its built like a tank, has a very good battery life and very good built in mics for when those might be used. For single channel recording it just seemed to be a good solution.

I am slightly concerned however about what disadvantage (if any) might the converter cable to go from XLR to 1/8" might bring me. Being that the NTG-2 can be battery powered I dont think the lacking Phantom power of the Sony PCM-D50 is going to be a problem, but Im not sure about not using a balanced XLR to XLR cable. Any input on this anyone?

Also, any input on the Rode NTG-2 / Sony PCM-D50 setup? I have also kicked around the next model down (Sony PCM-M10) since Id be using the recorder with an external mic anyway...

Ben, that set is actually what I wanted but with budget constructions, I have to go with vmp and h4n.

Panda_stunter wrote in post #12458167
Ben, that set is actually what I wanted but with budget constructions, I have to go with vmp and h4n.

Yea, its def a nice sounding setup for a bit more money, but Im seriously considering the Sony PCM-M10... Hard to find any info as to whether or not the pre-amps are the same or noticeably worse in the M10 than in the D50 though. Its also hard to find anyone using an XLR to 1/8" cable and an XLR mic with the M10. Other than that the M10 sounds like a better deal if you are going to be using an external microphone only. Still better metal build quality than the competitors, WAY good battery life, easy use and good display/menu, small size, comes with the wired remote, has tripod mount hole, etc.

Really does seem that most use these portable recorders with the built in mics. With the exception of the Zoom H4n, which is just insanely popular, I couldnt really find that many videos/test showing the PCM-D50 or PCM-M10 using an external XLR mic like the Rode NTG-2.