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Thread started 21 Apr 2011 (Thursday) 14:33
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What constitutes a "blemish" and how much should I correct it?

 
nathancarter
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Apr 21, 2011 14:33 |  #1

I shot my first portrait session on Sunday with some local dancers/performers. One of them is a pretty close friend, an experienced model, and a moderately experienced photo editor. I gave her the raws of her photos, knowing that she would not mangle them.

Yesterday she posted an edit on Facebook, and we briefly discussed it over Facebook comments. One of her comments was that "...facial blemishes should never see the light of day in a professional photo."

This, of course, started up my ol' contemplation engine. What constitutes a "blemish?" How do I know if it's something that I should cover or minimize in postprocessing? Obviously, I would get rid of temporary acne, bug bites, maybe a sunburn, an errant hair across the face or an outstanding thread on a piece of clothing. But where do I stop?

Does a mole count as a blemish, or does it count as a beauty mark?
Is a scar a blemish, or does it add personality and interest?
A double chin? Obviously that's not something that a model wants to see on herself.
How about wrinkles or crow's feet? If the model is in her mid-thirties, do I try to wipe her clean and make her look 18 again?

Then there's Portrait Professional, which lets you distort the structure of someone's face to conform to the software's definition of "beauty." I've used it only briefly, and frankly, it scares me.

I'm still a novice at portrait editing, but I tend to err on the side of "less edited." I don't want my models to have polished-rubber skin and glassy robot eyes. I'm also probably much less critical of faces and blemishes than I probably should be. I see everyone with rose-colored glasses: What some people say are imperfections, I say are character and personality and interest and uniqueness.

Do I have to over-edit a photo to make it look "professional?"


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Alex.K
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Apr 21, 2011 16:04 |  #2

Personally, and I'm no pro, but I would ask the model. I was an assistant once with a model shoot, and the model had this "birth mark" on her lip. My boss asked if she prefer that be edited out or left in - being a birth mark one never knows. They can hate that you left it, or hate that you took it away.

So when it comes to such things, I'd ask the model/client what THEY want and consider "blemishes".
Hope this was kinda helpful....


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KurtGoss
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Apr 21, 2011 17:02 as a reply to  @ Alex.K's post |  #3
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I have been doing professional retouching for over 25 years.

You can start with dividing retouching into TWO categories, and they are divided by WHO IS PAYING for the job.

1. If the client is the person you are shooting, then it is best to ASK the client what they expect for retouching. I have seen many clients get insulted when removing a mole or even a scar. They want to been seen just like they are in person. Then others like to make the shot look more like fashion magazines.

2. If the client is NOT the model, then the model has zero say in what gets retouched. In commercial and fashion marketing, anything goes when retouching -- and the client will tell you what they want - even if it means stretching facial features. Usually all moles, blemishes, scars, sunburn, birthmarks, and even tattoos are removed. Unless the model is Cindy Crawford, moles are removed.

I have seen trends go back and forth about the "amount" of retouching. Currently the trend is less retouching, a more natural skin look. Give it a few years and the trend will go back to more "doll" like retouching. It's MARKETING... the trend is always changing.




  
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RandyMN
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Apr 21, 2011 17:07 |  #4

If permanent such as scar, mole or birth mark, I'd think about asking the subject or just lessen the appearance without removing it. Kind of like wrinkles, you want them to look good but still look like themselves.

Obviously this is for portraits, with modeling I think it all is fair game for altering.




  
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ni$mo350
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Apr 21, 2011 17:13 |  #5

As stated above, I ask the subject if they're paying and if it's a TFCD, I trust my post skills well enough to know when enough is enough. I had shot a senior with pretty obvious acne issues and did my best to clean it up without looking to fake and she loved it.


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nathancarter
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Apr 22, 2011 09:49 |  #6

Thanks for the comments and advice. Kurt, it's especially nice to hear insight from an industry veteran.

It was a TFCD shoot, but I'm an utter novice at retouching. I feel like I'm getting reasonably adept in Lightroom, but face/skin work is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I don't think I'm to the point of relying on my own skill/experience yet.

Additionally, I want to maintain a good relationship with all the models that were at the shoot, so I may reach out to them and see what they like and don't like. One of the girls had been out in the sun for a couple of days, and I know she wanted me to clean up her slightly sunburned nose and cheeks. Another one was concerned about the texture on her face from acne scars, but to be honest I would not have noticed if she hadn't pointed it out.


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RDKirk
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Apr 23, 2011 11:13 as a reply to  @ nathancarter's post |  #7

Shooting portraits for a long time, and especially with most of my clients being women in their thirties and older (they are the ones with money and are buying photography), this is one rule that has never steered me wrong: Roll back the last five years.

A woman (and men too) who is thirty would rather look 25. A woman who is 50 would rather look 45. A woman who is 60 would rather look 55. I think it takes about five years for people to become comfortable about what they looked like five years earlier. That means eliminating recent age signs such as finer wrinkles and anything that is temporary. People of color collect tiny age-related moles the way light-skinned women collect age spots, so you can remove most of those age-related moles. Almost everyone of every age will have horizontal "necklace" creases around the neck. I always remove those.

About the only people over 30 who are comfortable with the appearance of their age are people in their 70s and older--at that point they get the attitude of "I worked hard for these wrinkles." Even with them, there is another danger:

The camera emphasizes defects. Only image professionals like models and actors can normally look in the mirror totally objectively and can see what a camera will see. For everyone else, it's usually a rude shock. That's why so many people say, "I never like my pictures."

When you interact with a live person, the constant motion and 3-dimensional view keeps you from concentrating on defects--you're engaged with the entire personality. But when you fix the image to a 2-dimensional surface and remove all other input, the blemishes are emphasized. That means you need to soften or lighten all blemishes--even Cindy Crawford's mole--to some extent because they will be more obvious in the photograph than in person.

Also, some bulges and wrinkles are a result of the pose, such as the common "over the shoulder look" pose, which usually results in deep neck creases even in young subjects. In the old film days, we'd hide those with careful placement of the hair--a compromise and a shame if the woman had a beautifully long neck. At the high end, an expert negative retoucher would handle it. But today, we can pull the hair back to expose that lovely neck and then easily take care of the creases in Photoshop.

With a bit of experience, you'll be able to pick up on what to remove and what to soften. You get a feel for what marks are "character" and what are marks of mere wear and tear. I generally do not ask because my clients come to me expecting me to know what to do. I've never had anyone complain about too much work, but I've had a few look at the previews and ask me to do even more. People know you can 'Shop out defects, and they expect it more and more these days.

I photographed one lady in her 70s who was utterly delightful to converse with. She was witty, had a quick smile, and had the clearest and bluest eyes ever. But she was also heavily wrinkled. In person, you were so engaged with her charm, her eyes, and her smile that you didn't notice the wrinkles...but in a photograph, the wrinkles would have dominated everything. So I had to pose and light her to emphasize her eyes and smile, and then follow that up in Photoshop to "emphasize the positive and de-emphasize the negative." No, I didn't try to make her look 25, but I tried to re-create the experience of engaging her in person.

I had a client not long ago who had had a mild stroke that had left one side of her mouth slightly paralyzed, and her concern was that I take a picture that did not show it. To do that naturally, I chose to photograph her with only slight smiles that could most naturally be adjusted in Photoshop--trying to fix a big grin would have been possible...but nobody ever saw her that way.

As a beginner's rule of thumb, if you didn't notice it when you looked at her in person or through the viewfinder, remove it from the photograph--it was not part of the personality you experienced live.


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suecassidy
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Apr 23, 2011 20:48 |  #8

RDKirk wrote in post #12278024 (external link)
Shooting portraits for a long time, and especially with most of my clients being women in their thirties and older (they are the ones with money and are buying photography), this is one rule that has never steered me wrong: Roll back the last five years.

A woman (and men too) who is thirty would rather look 25. A woman who is 50 would rather look 45. A woman who is 60 would rather look 55. I think it takes about five years for people to become comfortable about what they looked like five years earlier. That means eliminating recent age signs such as finer wrinkles and anything that is temporary. People of color collect tiny age-related moles the way light-skinned women collect age spots, so you can remove most of those age-related moles. Almost everyone of every age will have horizontal "necklace" creases around the neck. I always remove those.

About the only people over 30 who are comfortable with the appearance of their age are people in their 70s and older--at that point they get the attitude of "I worked hard for these wrinkles." Even with them, there is another danger:

The camera emphasizes defects. Only image professionals like models and actors can normally look in the mirror totally objectively and can see what a camera will see. For everyone else, it's usually a rude shock. That's why so many people say, "I never like my pictures."

When you interact with a live person, the constant motion and 3-dimensional view keeps you from concentrating on defects--you're engaged with the entire personality. But when you fix the image to a 2-dimensional surface and remove all other input, the blemishes are emphasized. That means you need to soften or lighten all blemishes--even Cindy Crawford's mole--to some extent because they will be more obvious in the photograph than in person.

Also, some bulges and wrinkles are a result of the pose, such as the common "over the shoulder look" pose, which usually results in deep neck creases even in young subjects. In the old film days, we'd hide those with careful placement of the hair--a compromise and a shame if the woman had a beautifully long neck. At the high end, an expert negative retoucher would handle it. But today, we can pull the hair back to expose that lovely neck and then easily take care of the creases in Photoshop.

With a bit of experience, you'll be able to pick up on what to remove and what to soften. You get a feel for what marks are "character" and what are marks of mere wear and tear. I generally do not ask because my clients come to me expecting me to know what to do. I've never had anyone complain about too much work, but I've had a few look at the previews and ask me to do even more. People know you can 'Shop out defects, and they expect it more and more these days.

I photographed one lady in her 70s who was utterly delightful to converse with. She was witty, had a quick smile, and had the clearest and bluest eyes ever. But she was also heavily wrinkled. In person, you were so engaged with her charm, her eyes, and her smile that you didn't notice the wrinkles...but in a photograph, the wrinkles would have dominated everything. So I had to pose and light her to emphasize her eyes and smile, and then follow that up in Photoshop to "emphasize the positive and de-emphasize the negative." No, I didn't try to make her look 25, but I tried to re-create the experience of engaging her in person.

I had a client not long ago who had had a mild stroke that had left one side of her mouth slightly paralyzed, and her concern was that I take a picture that did not show it. To do that naturally, I chose to photograph her with only slight smiles that could most naturally be adjusted in Photoshop--trying to fix a big grin would have been possible...but nobody ever saw her that way.

As a beginner's rule of thumb, if you didn't notice it when you looked at her in person or through the viewfinder, remove it from the photograph--it was not part of the personality you experienced live.

If that weren't so long, RDKirk, I'd needle point that a on a pillow. That was SO WELL SAID. Really great advice.


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suecassidy
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Apr 23, 2011 20:53 |  #9

On a side note, I've always looked much younger than I am. Part of that is good genetics, my 85 year old mother looks like she is in her early 70's, and part of that is my personality, people just THINK I"m younger than I am. Now that I'm beginning the climb towards my mid fifties, I'm sure I'll begin to look more my age. I'm a grandmother of 3, and I don't want my photos retouched into oblivion, I want to look like my best self on a day when I am well rested and YES, you got it, five years younger. But no more. 5 years. you nailed it in your observations about women. Wait, are you a woman yourself? It never occurred to me that you might be female as I don't think I know your name...


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nathancarter
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Apr 26, 2011 14:27 |  #10

RDKirk wrote in post #12278024 (external link)
Shooting portraits for a long time,

Thanks for the extended post. It was a good read.

One of the women I photographed is in her mid-late thirties - I don't know exactly - and when I showed her a handful of the un-edited photos, she laughed and said "Man, the camera shows EVERYTHING, doesn't it?" I interpreted that to mean, "Please minimize my crow's feet and the dark circles under my eyes" ... I probably could just as well have taken it as "Make me look five years younger." :)


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Apr 26, 2011 15:17 as a reply to  @ nathancarter's post |  #11

Wait, are you a woman yourself? It never occurred to me that you might be female as I don't think I know your name...

I'm just not afraid of my feminine side, which annoys my daughter because I sometimes take her Glamour mags before she's finished them. But I was reading Glamour 'way before she was born.


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Apr 28, 2011 21:29 |  #12

Coming from someone who has had high school senior pictures taken and has an interest in photography...


I wholeheartedly believe that the model or subject should be a part of that discussion. I had pictures taken a year ago by a lady running a senior portrait business. By the time I got the pictures back, they were so over-processed that I honestly did not like them. I didn't have a textbook clear face. Her edited images gave me a picture-perfect, smooth-as-a-baby's-behind face that was totally unrealistic. The over-processing combined with a few other things I didn't like left me with a $500 set of pictures that I never really liked. Looking at my other friends who had pictures done by other photographers, I have noticed that this is very common--I'm not sure if its the popular style, or just something that everyone else likes...


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What constitutes a "blemish" and how much should I correct it?
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