Buying Alien Bees, what wattage should I opt for?

I recently purchased 2 Einstiens and 2 AB800's. I was pretty sold on Elinchrom until the Einstiens came out. I believe they are both very good but for the money I had to spend I decided on the Einstiens. Honestly I do not think you can go wrong with either.
It is known that at very lower power settings it is possible that AB's can shift in color. If Paul Buff did not have the Einstiens I would have bought be Elinchroms because I feel like there were a better product than teh AB's and worth the extra $$. I feel however that the Einstiens has imporved the issues and I am very happy with those. I try and use the AB's for background light and try and keep the power levels up.


Just my .02.

lwest99 wrote in post #12290562
I recently purchased 2 Einstiens and 2 AB800's. I was pretty sold on Elinchrom until the Einstiens came out. I believe they are both very good but for the money I had to spend I decided on the Einstiens. Honestly I do not think you can go wrong with either.
It is known that at very lower power settings it is possible that AB's can shift in color. If Paul Buff did not have the Einstiens I would have bought be Elinchroms because I feel like there were a better product than teh AB's and worth the extra $$. I feel however that the Einstiens has imporved the issues and I am very happy with those. I try and use the AB's for background light and try and keep the power levels up.


Just my .02.

It sounds like there's a lot of talk about lower wattage/power not being sufficient? What do I not understand about that? Just curious. I guess I don't understand yet how 500ws is insufficient to light a subject and get good results.

StayLucky wrote in post #12290632
It sounds like there's a lot of talk about lower wattage/power not being sufficient? What do I not understand about that? Just curious. I guess I don't understand yet how 500ws is insufficient to light a subject and get good results.

When you're outdoors and are battling the sun for control of light, you need the 640 w/s of an Einstein or B1600.If you're not planning on shooting during the day outside, then a B800 would be plenty (as it becomes just the same as shooting indoor). I think the previous poster is just talking about the (very minor, in my experience) color shifts when the Alien Bee units (B400/800/1600) are used at low power.

dmward wrote in post #12290051
Genesis lights, including the 300B with its battery pack, are entry level lights with an inconsistent power adjustment that has a digital readout.

Just to clarify, it is my understanding that the Genesis digital readout isn't linear, but it is accurate and reproducible in the output power. I have read posts (I believe on here, but I couldn't find it right away) where people have figured out the digital readout equivalent to the stops, made a printout and kept it with the lights. Yeah, it adds a little extra to the process (look-up of values), but the substantial savings can make it worth it for a lot of people.

anlenke wrote in post #12290781
When you're outdoors and are battling the sun for control of light, you need the 640 w/s of an Einstein or B1600.If you're not planning on shooting during the day outside, then a B800 would be plenty (as it becomes just the same as shooting indoor). I think the previous poster is just talking about the (very minor, in my experience) color shifts when the Alien Bee units (B400/800/1600) are used at low power.

I see what you mean now. Shooting in BRIGHT sun light, no I don't see myself doing that soon and if I do, I don't think I'd be using lights, no? Outdoor shooting for now would be at dusk/evening times and the indoor work of course, also.

StayLucky wrote in post #12291650
I see what you mean now. Shooting in BRIGHT sun light, no I don't see myself doing that soon and if I do, I don't think I'd be using lights, no? Outdoor shooting for now would be at dusk/evening times and the indoor work of course, also.

If you're shooting at dusk/evening, then a B800 will probably do it. This is the way I see it: skies are beautiful, dramatic, and valuable at golden hour, but you have to consider that the light is also changing very quickly at this time. If I'm just starting a shoot then, sometimes it can take a bit to get into a rhythm with a model or client, and by then, you've either lost most of the light or are having to work hard to stay with it. It's nice to be able to start a little earlier and still knock down the skies to get the dramatic look. That takes more power. I stand by the B800 & B1600 if you can't get 2 Einsteins...
Have you thought about getting an Alien Bee B800 first and seeing if it's enough for what you're wanting to do? Keep in mind that, in the first year, you can upgrade for $25 + the cost difference in units, so you can also get more without setting yourself back too much. Plus, from what I hear, there's been a bit of a wait time for the Vagabond II's or VMLs, so you may want to at least order one light and the power source to start?

I was one of those posting the findings from tests with the Genesis.
I don't recall now how accurate the settings were going back to a specific setting after changing to another. Probably reasonably close.

That said, I could bet my AB800s reasonably close with the analog slider power control. And when coupled with a CSR+ and Cyber Commander, they are accurate and also linear with 1/10 stop increments over the power range.

They are also accurate and linear when used with an AC9 in the ControlTL environment.

The versatility offered by the 8 stop range of an Einstein, combined with short flash duration that shortens when power is reduced makes them a better lighting resource in my opinion.

anlenke wrote in post #12292383
If you're shooting at dusk/evening, then a B800 will probably do it. This is the way I see it: skies are beautiful, dramatic, and valuable at golden hour, but you have to consider that the light is also changing very quickly at this time. If I'm just starting a shoot then, sometimes it can take a bit to get into a rhythm with a model or client, and by then, you've either lost most of the light or are having to work hard to stay with it. It's nice to be able to start a little earlier and still knock down the skies to get the dramatic look. That takes more power. I stand by the B800 & B1600 if you can't get 2 Einsteins...
Have you thought about getting an Alien Bee B800 first and seeing if it's enough for what you're wanting to do? Keep in mind that, in the first year, you can upgrade for $25 + the cost difference in units, so you can also get more without setting yourself back too much. Plus, from what I hear, there's been a bit of a wait time for the Vagabond II's or VMLs, so you may want to at least order one light and the power source to start?

I'll keep that in mind. There's a real allure to the elinchrom's for some reason, I guess I view them as somewhat more professional? Maybe it's their aesthetic? I know that I want to invest in a set that I can grow with and that will last me many years, an investment. That's why I was looking more at Elinchrom's stuff instead of AlienBee's because for a while it seemed like AlienBee's was a good "entry level" option and now I see that it can cover all the boards.

However, it sounds like I need at LEAST 800ws of power to be versatile enough to work.

In terms of lasting for many years, I know photographers that are still using AB lights that are at least 15 years old.

The D-Lite is Elinchrom's entry level light. It lacks many features that the higher end Elinchroms have.
They certainly have industrial designers that can create an esthetically pleasing case. PCB is all engineering. Then find a way to get it into a case with the minimum frills.

That's OK with me. As for professional; From Speedtrons, the Alien Bees, to Einsteins, I've never had a client ask me what kind of lights I was using. Getting the shot -- that's all that matters.

Either choice will deliver the goods.

StayLucky wrote in post #12292655
I'll keep that in mind. There's a real allure to the elinchrom's for some reason, I guess I view them as somewhat more professional? Maybe it's their aesthetic? I know that I want to invest in a set that I can grow with and that will last me many years, an investment. That's why I was looking more at Elinchrom's stuff instead of AlienBee's because for a while it seemed like AlienBee's was a good "entry level" option and now I see that it can cover all the boards.

However, it sounds like I need at LEAST 800ws of power to be versatile enough to work.

I hear this a fair bit when I teach studio lighting, and I'm not saying that this is your personal rationale, but the Elinchrom appeal being more "professional" often means the lights look more "professional looking". The Alien Bees come in crazy colors, have a wild founder, and it sounds more formidable to buy European lights than ones built in TN. This, though, when looking at D-Lites versus Alien Bees (which are the two you'd probably want to compare), makes no difference (relative to skill) in the most important result; the photographs.

800 w/s is a ton. The Alien Bees are a bit misleading: the AB400 is only 160 w/s, the 800 is 320w/s, and the B1600 is 640w/s. The Einstein is 640w/s. If you're shooting and noon and want full control, you'll want more than that, but 800 is a whole ton.

dmward wrote in post #12292709
In terms of lasting for many years, I know photographers that are still using AB lights that are at least 15 years old.

The D-Lite is Elinchrom's entry level light. It lacks many features that the higher end Elinchroms have.
They certainly have industrial designers that can create an esthetically pleasing case. PCB is all engineering. Then find a way to get it into a case with the minimum frills.

That's OK with me. As for professional; From Speedtrons, the Alien Bees, to Einsteins, I've never had a client ask me what kind of lights I was using. Getting the shot -- that's all that matters.

Either choice will deliver the goods.

Aesthetics and looks should definitely not be first thing we consider, but here we are, consumer America, right? lol.

I'll keep weighing both brands and keep researching it. These lights may end up being a graduation gift as well in July.

Also, how concerned should I be when it comes to effective watt seconds and true watt seconds? How can I better understand these two things to make a better decision as well.

dmward wrote in post #12292709
In terms of lasting for many years, I know photographers that are still using AB lights that are at least 15 years old.

The D-Lite is Elinchrom's entry level light. It lacks many features that the higher end Elinchroms have.
They certainly have industrial designers that can create an esthetically pleasing case. PCB is all engineering. Then find a way to get it into a case with the minimum frills.

That's OK with me. As for professional; From Speedtrons, the Alien Bees, to Einsteins, I've never had a client ask me what kind of lights I was using. Getting the shot -- that's all that matters.

Either choice will deliver the goods.

The BX 500 Ri is also an option from Elinchrom, for me as well. Not sure if that's worth looking into with it only being 500 ws.

anlenke wrote in post #12292771
I hear this a fair bit when I teach studio lighting, and I'm not saying that this is your personal rationale, but the Elinchrom appeal being more "professional" often means the lights look more "professional looking". The Alien Bees come in crazy colors, have a wild founder, and it sounds more formidable to buy European lights than ones built in TN. This, though, when looking at D-Lites versus Alien Bees (which are the two you'd probably want to compare), makes no difference (relative to skill) in the most important result; the photographs.

800 w/s is a ton. The Alien Bees are a bit misleading: the AB400 is only 160 w/s, the 800 is 320w/s, and the B1600 is 640w/s. The Einstein is 640w/s. If you're shooting and noon and want full control, you'll want more than that, but 800 is a whole ton.

I totally get what you're seeing. The "professional look" is appealing, however I was drawn to AB by their look, color choices, price, and the fact that they are made in the USA and seem to be easy to contact if something goes wrong.

Because the AlienBee's are misleading is what bothers me about them, but that doesn't mean the Elinchrom's aren't also misleading in their w/s readings. The 500 w/s model may not necessarily be 500 w/s, unless they don't pull your chain, marketing wise.

The einstein is now an option because of the versatility and w/s rating.

The Effective Wattsecond thing was an attempt by Buff to illustrate that his lights delivered as much light to the subject as another strobe with more raw power. That gets into reflector efficiency and a pile of other stuff.

Apparently, the real measurement is related to lumens and no one offers that information.
At any rate, the Einstein follows the industry convention of publishing its Ws rating.

Since you're still researching spend some time looking at remote control capabilities.
The Cyber Commander offers some very nice features with the Einsteins, and PCB has incorporated a lot of the capability into the CSR+ for the analog AB lights.

I know Elinchrom has remote control capabilities, not sure what they support. I also think it depends on which lighting system you have.