Help needed with 7D IQ

jwcdds wrote in post #12311180
center focus point (unless you're using "spot AF") on the 7D is actually quite large. The actual sensor cross-hairs extend quite a distance outside of the indicated rectangle in the VF. So if there is any moderate-high contrast area that's in front of what you really want to focus, then the camera will give you an AF lock, but not actually focused on what you wanted to focus on. And the resulting image can look soft and slightly out-of-focus.

I sorta knew that but .. not. I'll try Spot AF but is there a caveat to SpotAF I should be aware of?

alphamalex wrote in post #12311877
I sorta knew that but .. not. I'll try Spot AF but is there a caveat to SpotAF I should be aware of?

Yeah, the caveat is that SpotAF may acquire focus a little slower (because it's using such a small portion of the AF sensor to look for contrast). So Spot-AF won't be ideal for AI Servo work unless the subject is small on the VF. Also, although when you switch to Spot-AF, you'll see the additional square inside the existing focus rectangle... ironically, the actual cross-hairs for the Spot-AF still extend just beyond the edges of the outer rectangle. (I think this was silly of Canon to do so as it seems to be counter-intuitive but what do I know. :lol

The great thing about the 7D's AF is its customization. So you can select different modes to optimize the performance/keeper rate for what you're shooting. But because it doesn't really have the 1-mode-that-works-for-all-situation... I can see some people getting frustrated with some of the results their getting because they don't want to hassle with a more complicated AF system.

Roy Mathers wrote in post #12311832
Thanks Dale. That seems to back up some of the other advice I've had on this thread. Things can only get better!

And kudos to you, Roy. You've gone into this dialog with an open mind, not afraid to admit that you may not be doing things quite right and changing what you do to try and improve things. Obviously you're somebody willing to learn - and you can only benefit from that attitude.

A total contrast to another similar thread, where a similar problem is defintely the camera's fault and the complainer just ignores questions about sharpening and NR settings or suggestions to post the raw files so that others can try processing them differently.

Thanks for those comments Frank. As I said earlier, I have been taking photographs for years with various other cameras, and I couldn't understand my inability to get decent shots from the 7D. At first, I must admit, I suspected the camera. Then common sense told me it couldn't be, so I thought I'd ask the experts her and, as a result, got some very valuable information and advice. I always think that there's not much point is asking for advice if you're not going to take it!

Thank you guys for this thread! Lots of great advice regarding to the processing of 7D RAW files and the AF system. They worked for me as well!

I'm very glad that my troubles could help you tamas!

wannabegood wrote in post #12311803
Roy, as has already been pointed out, it's more a problem with your settings that's bothering you. About 4o points too much sharpening, not enough mask and way too much vivid as well as too much boost in the midtones. Also too much NR by about 2x. You'll want to enlarge your view onscreen to 100% or even more when making sharpening and NR adjustments so you can see what's happening, and doing so will show you when NR reaches it's help point/hurt point. This 100% crop was made after readjusting your settings then applying my own sharpening action which is a pretty mild action of my own creation. Hope this helps, looks like your test shots are coming along nicely so perhaps you're well on your way in the 7D learning curve! Keep up the good work and Enjoy!

See, now I don't think this is very good at all. It still looks soft and the background looks painted...

I think I agree with you. Can you do better?

Roy Mathers wrote in post #12365630
I think I agree with you. Can you do better?

No, I think that photo is beyond help. Not that I have the skills anyway.

skywalkerbeth wrote in post #12365610
See, now I don't think this is very good at all. It still looks soft and the background looks painted...

That is the issue of the lens and how it renders OOF areas, that is not an issue of the 7D. The only other time you get this effect is if you have an underexposed area, bring the levels back up, then use noise software to remove it, then sharpen everything. That will create blotches too.

Finally regarding the two ladies and the AF mode, did I miss what AF point you used? The original image has the ladies in the upper left of the frame with all the flowers, etc all in focus in front of them. Either this was a recompose or an AF point was selected that laid over them, I assume. Also I hope the expansion mode wasn't turned on, it would have allowed your AF to move around a bit as the camera saw fit. When I pull up the full-size, I can see the flowers at their feet about a step or two ahead are in focus, then everything starts to move out of focus.

Roy Mathers wrote in post #12297346
I'm looking for some help and/or advice before I go crazy. I recently bought a 7D and, to be honest, I am less than enamoured with it. In fact, I preferred the 40D of which I have just disposed. I see all the wonderful examples of this camera's results on the Post 7D pictures thread in this forum but I unable to get anywhere near the same results. I've been using a 40D since it was introduced and, before that the 10D, 20D and 30D - all with great results - but the 7D is a let down.

I know that people say that there is a learning curve with this camera and, for instance, the AF system needs getting used to, but there are other aspects of the camera's IQ that I am less than happy with. For instance, I feel that noise is excessive, even at ISO200 and, because conventional wisdom says that 7D files need more sharpening than usual, such sharpening only exaggerates the noise.

First of all, I want to know what I may expect from the camera and if I am being unrealistic and, to do that, I need other people (experts?) to look at a couple of the shots that I think are eg too noisy. If post them onto this forum, they have to be jpegs (I shoot in RAW) and the one or two I have posted on the 7D thread have suffered awfully from the conversion to jpeg.

Is there any way that I can show you gurus the RAW files, without any degradation in order for you to give me your opinions? Or is there any other way to post the pics for you to comment on the IQ in a meaningful way. Any suggestions would be very welcome.

I am hunting around trying to find info. Not for the 7D though.

Let me give you a piece of advice borne of experience. Forums are a pretty difficult places to do this without being pretty specific.
It's a tough job.
This is without even reading any replies to your initial question.
I did try a 7D with the 60 efs in store to assess manual focussing with that lens. Didn't set the world on fire for sure with IQ. Pretty average combo.
But, that could be for a host of reasons, I didn't set the camera up the shop lad did, but he usually knows his stuff. But i'd guess what I got was near the mark for it.
I've seen examples on the net.

And my advice is if the 7D, with your knowledge of previous models giving results that you like, is still not cutting the muster forget "learning curves".
AF differences have nothing to do with IQ.

Check the body against another copy - in a very strict way. If you have a faulty camera, simple. Replace.
If not, ditch it.
The best experience is your own.

PS. I did a quick look at posts in the end. The guys are helping as much as possible, but you not that much further forward....checking focus with a ruler ?
Take my advice Roy, check the camera against another, save the grief. (unless you find this fun).

And do not assume it's you at fault. You have experience....use it !

The digital camera world changes it's socks at a fast rate and it's all mainly for ££'s, with marginal advances in IQ. It's all about new features to lure (if you need them) not IQ, producing a few unwashed socks as they tinker about.

Never has the phrase "the grass is greener" been so apt. Good luck.

Thank you both for your input. I am going on holiday next week and I shall look at the results after that. It I still can't fathom it, I will probably take the advice and try another copy.