white balance

how do you make sure that you shoot w/ the right white balance indoors (so you dont have to fix the white balance in photoshop during processing)? white balance filter?

Should be some kind of setting for indoor outdoor. At the very least there should be a way to shot white and then tell the Camera to use this reference as white. I think thats how most cameras do it.

dingdong wrote in post #12318330
how do you make sure that you shoot w/ the right white balance indoors (so you dont have to fix the white balance in photoshop during processing)? white balance filter?

The easiest least expensive way is to use a Custom White Balance as per instruction provided with the camera. E.g. take a picture of something that is pure white, focus manually and set the exposure accordingly. Make sure the white object at least covers the center "Spot Metering Circle" area of the focus screen, and then import that image as your white balance data.
Otherwise use AWB and make sure your exposure is right. Indoors you will probably have to compensate +1/3 to +1 stop. Make sure your camera is metering where you want it to. Check your AF point and Metering mode.

Or you can use a light meter and set the color temperature more precisely.

when outdoors during daylight hours, choose the 'sun' WB setting. Indoors at night with lights on, use the incandescent setting--looks like a light bulb.

Shooting a gray card like a Whi-Bal product, or doing a custom white balance is better than my advice above.

Not worrying about WB and shooting RAW files then correcting to accurate WB as first step in post-processing is probably the most accurate WB you'll see.

dave

I agree with snyderman. This is not the easiest, and it is not not guaranteed to work, because what we perceive as "pure white" can vary quite a bit in color temperature. (I learned this the hard way.) And every time the lighting changes significantly, you have to fuss with setting a new custom white balance.

If the lighting indoors is from mixed sources, it may be hard to get it just right regardless of what you do. But leaving that aside, the easiest thing (IMHO) is to take a good neutral gray or neutral white card (I use a WhiBal) and have one friendly person standing in the right light to hold it in front of her face. Take a shot, and use the eyedropper to get a white balance adjustment. Adjust it to taste, and then sync it to the rest of the images. If the lighting changes during the shoot, take another image with the gray card. A whole lot faster than fussing with a new custom WB setting.

Most lighting indoors today is a mixed source...CFL and some incandescent in various fixtures, for example. And such mixed lighting is extremely difficult to balance because the percentage of CFL vs. percentage of incandescent varies entirely upon position in the room!

As Wilt says ^^^, shooting indoors these days with artificial lighting can be a right PITA.

Years ago the majority of indoor lighting was 'normal' incandescent light-bulbs, and this is what the WB preset on the camera will be for, replicating the old tungsten light films you could get for this purpose.
Most lighting is now a mixture of CFL (compact fluorescent lamps) & halogen and if you throw-in some stray daylight as well, you have a right mixture to contend with.

I tend to shoot a grey card in the lighting I want to balance (usually the actual subject of the photo), at least this way I get the subject correctly balanced, but you may still get colour casts on things lit from other sources.
You can of course spend hours masking off separate areas in Photoshop etc. but that's not what the OP is asking about

paddler4 wrote in post #12318897
I agree with snyderman. This is not the easiest, and it is not not guaranteed to work,

Ok It's the second easiest next to selecting AWB or one of the other presets in camera. Otherwise It Is the easiest and least expensive for anyone who doesn't want to fuss with it in PP. I don't recall saying anywhere that it was guaranteed. You can also do the same using an 18% Graycard to set your custom WB which is more accurate. I believe the owners manual mentions that as well as why.

Even if you have mixed lighting indoors unless someone is turning lights on and off it should remain consistent while you are shooting. Of course if you've got the Sun shining in through windows that should be shaded, then you might have changing light temperature also.
Or if you're moving around and shooting in various rooms throughout your house, then you might have to worry about reflective lighting too, in which case then even if you use a light meter you would have to change it anyways.

Otherwise the best alternative is to invest in a light meter and a set of gray-cards

paddler4 wrote in post #12318897
because what we perceive as "pure white" can vary quite a bit in color temperature.

White is White, The only thing that would effect the color temperature of something pure white is the lighting, either incident or reflective.
What we perceive as white is most likely what we want our camera to also perceive as white. After all, Isn't that the whole purpose of setting the WB / Color Temperature? I always thought it was so that whites would be white and the colors would be right.
Buy a set of gray cards like those I linked above for 15 bucks, or make your own. 1 white, 1 black and 1 18% gray.

tkerr wrote in post #12321692
White is White, The only thing that would effect the color temperature of something pure white is the lighting, either incident or reflective.
What we perceive as white is most likely what we want our camera to also perceive as white. After all, Isn't that the whole purpose of setting the WB / Color Temperature? I always thought it was so that whites would be white and the colors would be right. .

I need to take exception to the above statement. I have done testing with various 'printer paper' selections and found that WB settings from them have been as much as 600K in error, compared to a neutral 18% gray card value (and I have included three different 18% gray targets from different sources in this test with various white papers...WB values are the same with all three gray cards, but changed to other values with some 'white' papers)

The problem is that many 'white paper' versions exist, where optical brighteners have been used to improved our perception of 'white' or 'bright' reflectivity. And these brighteners can render a cast which fools WB tools.

Kind of risky unless you have absolute faith in your printer profile and are sure your printer is pumping out neutral grey when you tell it to.

Wilt wrote in post #12321740
I need to take exception to the above statement. I have done testing with various 'printer paper' selections and found that WB settings from them have been as much as 600K in error, compared to a neutral 18% gray card value (and I have included three different 18% gray targets from different sources in this test with various white papers...WB values are the same with all three gray cards, but changed to other values with some 'white' papers)

The problem is that many 'white paper' versions exist, where optical brighteners have been used to improved our perception of 'white' or 'bright' reflectivity. And these brighteners can render a cast which fools WB tools.

Then it isn't pure white!
A good test would be take it outside on a nice clear day under the natural sunlight around noon or under white 5500k lighting. If you perceive it as white then it is, and that is what you want your camera to perceive as white also.

Nevertheless, I agreed about using something white and even stated myself that using an 18% gray card can be used the same way to set the white balance, and is more accurate.

I've got my cards and keep them with my camera gear. They are also great for making sure your exposure is right even if you don't use them to set a custom white balance.

Maybe this can help the OP.
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=Q5HaRTmbozc

tzalman wrote in post #12321764
Kind of risky unless you have absolute faith in your printer profile and are sure your printer is pumping out neutral grey when you tell it to.

You're absolutely right. Many newer quality printers are quite accurate. but be careful, some printers might consider neutral gray as 50%.

If you invest in the gray card set I provided the link to above, you also have the Photographers Rights printed on one side that some might find useful to have along with them.

tkerr wrote in post #12321819
Then it isn't pure white! ...If you perceive it as white then it is, and that is what you want your camera to perceive as white also.

And herein lies the fundamental problem, that what we PERCEIVED as white might NOT in actuality be 'pure white'!

Wilt wrote in post #12321915
And herein lies the fundamental problem, that what we PERCEIVED as white might NOT in actuality be 'pure white'!

You don't trust your eyes? Isn't it your eyes you rely on when you look at your picture to ensure they are correctly exposed and the wb is right?

How would we know if a 18% gray card is actually 18% gray.

When using a light meter with an 18% gray card are you going to get it right? Does the camera want to expose at 18% gray?

Nope!

tkerr wrote in post #12322015
You don't trust your eyes? Isn't it your eyes you rely on when you look at your picture to ensure they are correctly exposed and the wb is right?

How would we know if a 18% gray card is actually 18% gray.

When using a light meter with an 18% gray card are you going to get it right? Does the camera want to expose at 18% gray?

Nope!

In an absolute sense I do NOT trust what my eyes perceive as white...simply go to a paint store with all the various shades/hues that we identify as 'white' when we look at one color swatch alone, but then decide it is 'not so white' when we see it side to side with another example of 'white'!
If color balance matters (and it does in SOME applications like textiles and fashions) I need to provide absolute accuracy, not merely relatively close white balance.

I know when 18% gray is neutral gray because I have taken four different products and compared them all to each other, and gotten identical results from each of them. I doubt claims of 'neutral gray' unless I have tested the product and compared it to these four known neutral examples...Macbeth Color Checker (which is a color reference standard), Kodak gray, Douglas Grey Card, PhotoVision target.

And, BTW, my Canon 40D aimed at the Kodak card (which is an accepted 18% tonality) provides same exposure reading as my Minolta Autometer Vf incident meter and the same exposure as my Minolta Spotmeter F aimed at the Kodak card.