Had a clueless guy accuse me of taking away his business

And just to think that all this time, my whole TWO years, I thought it was about the total of the sale not how much I was getting for each print. I thought it was about smiling clients that spread the good word. Customer satisfaction. People talking and growing a business. The bottom line. Demographics. Having clients standing in line. Man oh man, woe is me. All these wasted years, I mean moths.

I just raised my prices by 400%. I will be rich in no time now. I've seen the light. Thank you.

cbknight wrote in post #12332490
I just raised my prices by 400%. I will be rich in no time now. I've seen the light. Thank you.

Well you'd be either rich or broke - I'm not saying which.

cbknight wrote in post #12331796
Again, your wrong. If you think my selling a 5x7 for fifteen bucks is giving it away, you didnt listen to a word I wrote. Our 15 bucks is your 35 bucks. It's of equal value. But if your work is sooo special as to be tiers above $35, congrats. Your an amazing photographer and I bow to your exisitance. But i will tell you what, you sell for what you want to sell for and I will sell for what I want to sell for, and if you think I am wrong, live with it or fade away. I could care less. Some odd folks in this world that believe what I do is any of their business. Your obviously well above my level, and your worrying about me taking food from your families table is laughable. If you shoot in a different genre, then your safe from the likes of me. But back to the debate of us lowballers........If I sell to the poor, and the poor can't afford you, then you lost nothing. It's about how I want to market. My session fees are on point with others. I sell prints for less to get them to buy. Some buy a few. Some buy a lot. But they always come back next time.

Now, I have to go make my measly 4 or 5 hundred bucks today, then pray someone will give me 15 bucks for a 5x7.

No I'm not wrong for me. Theres a big reason I don't work in a field where I sell 5X7s. I don't have to be. THe problem is like i said earlier Walmart does volume to make $$$ I would never want to be the McDonalds or Walmart of photography. The volume you have to do will burn you out in a few years not to mention the type of work you'll be doing.

You are seeing a very big reason why many full time pro don't post here. You have folks that have been in the biz for the most part, part time, and are very new at it and no more about the business than folks doing it full time for 20 or 30 years.

Talk to me in 10 years of doing high volume.

Getting to the difference between fine art and commercial is if you are truly creating art you are doing it for no other reason than yourself and a need to express your vision. Commercial work you create usually as a collaboration and/or for others that have the control by if you don't satisfy the client you wont a client.

Heres a great quote by the great Edward Weston. I agree with everything except I don't hate what I do for a living.
"When money enters in, - then, for a price, I become a liar, - and a good one I can be whether with pencil or subtle lighting or viewpoint. I hate it all, but so do I support not only my family, but my own work." - Edward Weston


You can do whatever you want I couldn't care how you price your work because like many pros have put themselves in a position where folks that don't charge a lot are not their competition.

But the fact still remains that to many don't value what they create. They should because what you create is a reflection of who you are.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #12331607
.

But I can tell you that I would rather wait a year and sell one piece for a grand than to sell 10 pieces over the year at $100.

I would rather sell 10 @ $100. I would rather have 10 prints hanging in clients homes for all their friends, family and aquaintances to see and discuss rather than just one. Has to do with branding. Your ten times more visible while the "one for a grand" was sitting waiting to be sold.

cbknight wrote in post #12332490
And just to think that all this time, my whole TWO years, I thought it was about the total of the sale not how much I was getting for each print. I thought it was about smiling clients that spread the good word. Customer satisfaction. People talking and growing a business. The bottom line. Demographics. Having clients standing in line. Man oh man, woe is me. All these wasted years, I mean moths.

I just raised my prices by 400%. I will be rich in no time now. I've seen the light. Thank you.

Get some skill in areas that everyone can't enter and move into an area that you can use those skills in and maybe you can have a real career that not only provides some financial security but also give you real creative satisfaction. If you are in photography to get rich then you are in the wrong field.

cbknight wrote in post #12332665
I would rather sell 10 @ $100. I would rather have 10 prints hanging in clients homes for all their friends, family and aquaintances to see and discuss rather than just one. Has to do with branding. Your ten times more visible while the "one for a grand" was sitting waiting to be sold.

Well, good for you.

I would much rather see my work on billboards, annual reports,newspapers, brochures and a major publications and my personal work in permanent collections at museums and in collectors homes.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #12332663
No I'm not wrong for me. Theres a big reason I don't work in a field where I sell 5X7s. I don't have to be. THe problem is like i said earlier Walmart does volume to make $$$ I would never want to be the McDonalds or Walmart of photography. The volume you have to do will burn you out in a few years not to mention the type of work you'll be doing.

You are seeing a very big reason why many full time pro don't post here. You have folks that have been in the biz for the most part, part time, and are very new at it and no more about the business than folks doing it full time for 20 or 30 years.

Talk to me in 10 years of doing high volume.

Getting to the difference between fine art and commercial is if you are truly creating art you are doing it for no other reason than yourself and a need to express your vision. Commercial work you create usually as a collaboration and/or for others that have the control by if you don't satisfy the client you wont a client.

Heres a great quote by the great Edward Weston. I agree with everything except I don't hate what I do for a living.
"When money enters in, - then, for a price, I become a liar, - and a good one I can be whether with pencil or subtle lighting or viewpoint. I hate it all, but so do I support not only my family, but my own work." - Edward Weston


You can do whatever you want I couldn't care how you price your work because like many pros have put themselves in a position where folks that don't charge a lot are not their competition.

But the fact still remains that to many don't value what they create. They should because what you create is a reflection of who you are.

You have no idea what I value. Many pro's may not post here for many reasons. I do no more work than the rest so burnout is not an option. It takes 10 minutes to place an order whether it's one print or 10. I've gone from a GWC to a GWC that's booked in a short amount of time. That bothers some, and I can respect that. But what my clients don't lack is quality. They get it. They talk about it. I get more business.

To be honest, I didn't care for volume Pricing my first year. I would run a special that brought the prices down and the phone would ring off the wall. That opened my eyes. I'm not even full time, but I have learned a hell of a lot more by having clients to shoot rather than waiting on them to understand my quality of work is at the level I was pricing it at. Maybe it's not, but I learn something and get better at every shoot, and like I said, they are knocking down our door.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #12332697
Well, good for you.

I would much rather see my work on billboards, annual reports,newspapers, brochures and a major publications and my personal work in permanent collections at museums and in collectors homes.

Good for you. Two different markets you keep referring to. I was speaking for myself, not against yours. If you don't realize it, a good discussion is going on here. One that will be read by hundreds while trying to figure out their pricing strategy. I respect your position. There is nothing wrong with it. But it's not the only road to take.

cbknight wrote in post #12332719
You have no idea what I value. Many pro's may not post here for many reasons. I do no more work than the rest so burnout is not an option. It takes 10 minutes to place an order whether it's one print or 10. I've gone from GWC to GWC that's booked in a short amount if time. That bothers some, and I can respect that. But what my clients don't lack is quality. They get it. They talk about it. I get more business.

To be honest, I didn't care for volume Pricing my first year. I would run a special that brought the prices down and the phone would ring off the wall. That opened my eyes. I'm not even full time, but I have learned a hell of a lot more by having clients to shoot rather than waiting on them to understand my quality if work is at the level I was pricing it at. Maybe it's not, but I learn something and get better at every shoot, and like I said, they are knocking down our door.

Again, do you really want to be Walmart? Like I said in an earlier post when i decided years ago to do this full time I made a decision if I were going to be a whore I wasn't going to be a cheap whore. But thats me and whats right for me. You rock dude. Its been fun but this is again why most full time pros don't port here. You guys got it all figured out anyway. You don't need our advice.

A Sorry goes out to the OP for contribution to the hijacking of his thread. But as I said before, I see nothing he needs to change. If it works for his business model, then the other guy has two options.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #12332755
Again, do you really want to be Walmart? Like I said in an earlier post when i decided years ago to do this full time I made a decision if I were going to be a whore I wasn't going to be a cheap whore. But thats me and whats right for me. You rock dude. Its been fun but this is again why most full time pros don't port here. You guys got it all figured out anyway. You don't need our advice.

Counting to 10 before I reply.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #12332755
Again, do you really want to be Walmart? Like I said in an earlier post when i decided years ago to do this full time I made a decision if I were going to be a whore I wasn't going to be a cheap whore. But thats me and whats right for me. You rock dude. Its been fun but this is again why most full time pros don't port here. You guys got it all figured out anyway. You don't need our advice.

Is Zack Arias a pro? Its his advice I am taking. I know your more sought after than he is, but he's the pro I am listening to today.

His day rate is $2500 per day. What is yours? Do you want to be walmart? A cheap whore? If not, you might want to raise your prices.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #12332755
this is again why most full time pros don't port here.

Most pros don't post on forums because they are too busy creating more photos, learning new programs and techniques, travelling to another shoot, or spending what free time they do have with family and friends.

Bosscat wrote in post #12333043
Most pros don't post on forums because they are too busy creating more photos, learning new programs and techniques, travelling to another shoot, or spending what free time they do have with family and friends.

Or posting to more pro-oriented forums, where this issue wouldn't be debated in the first place. There are certain kinds of questions that lead to very short threads on professional forums:

Should I put my logo on my work?
Should I charge? or Should I charge more? or Should I charge friends and relatives?
What's the best equipment to use?

Those will be very short and uncontroversial threads on a professional forum.

RDKirk wrote in post #12333185
Or posting to more pro-oriented forums, where this issue wouldn't be debated in the first place. There are certain kinds of questions that lead to very short threads on professional forums:

Should I put my logo on my work?
Should I charge? or Should I charge more? or Should I charge friends and relatives?
What's the best equipment to use?

Those will be very short and uncontroversial threads on a professional forum.

So the pro's are there. The rest who post here aren't professionals. Got it. Thanks. Finally a definition of a professional photographer.