Had a clueless guy accuse me of taking away his business

cbknight wrote in post #12333217
So the pro's are there. The rest who post here aren't professionals. Got it. Thanks. Finally a definition of a professional photographer.

I guess you missed the "or."

Some of us don't bowl or play golf, and it's a way to spend some time while waiting for a batch job to process.

But why hang out where the pro's don't? Or with the riffraff

It is easier to land the low-paying gig and thus generate immediate cashflow. I for one am happy to keep some money coming in that is regular and predictable.

The higher priced work is nice but until you are established in a field it is not easy to get regular high-end work.

I for one much prefer the higher-end work as it gives me a chance to exercise my creativity in a way that my day-to-day cookie cutter work does not, unfortunately however I could not live on the income from the high-end work yet although it does nicely suppliment my steady work.

My cookie cutter stuff brings in a regular monthly wage (c.$6000 per month) which takes away lots of the stress of thinking where's my next job coming from.

cbknight wrote in post #12333270
But why hang out where the pro's don't? Or with the riffraff

Because occasionally you get a chance to get the popcorn out...

airfrogusmc wrote in post #12332755
Again, do you really want to be Walmart?

The last time I checked Wal-Mart was a very successful business. All the heirs are billionaires. Yet, you act like that is a failure of a system. If someone can make a lot of money with this system how is that not successful?

I know there are photographers that charge more than me and they spend a lot more time in PP then I do. Yet, they consider a good year to be one where they shoot 100 homes. I shot over 400 homes the last two years. Unless they are charging 4 times what I am charging, they are no more successful than I am, financially speaking. The ones I am thinking of also tell me they can only shoot 2-3 homes a week, max, because of all the time they spend doing PP. Being stuck behind a computer 30 hours a week is NOT my idea of fun. I would much rather spend my time in the field. Sure, I have the occasional client that will order the high end package and it takes me a while in PP, but that is NOT the way I would prefer to spend my time. I do not want to be stuck behind the computer processing photos for days on end. That just does not appeal to me. Therefore, not only does my business model work for me but it also appeals to the way I would prefer to spend my time. In the end, it is a success for me, both financially and personally.

I'll take what I can get in this craptastic economy. Heck even a measly pathetically short $100 session pays the cell phone bill. At least that's covered.

I like your Model, especially that you already got paid for the shoot, providing parents with affordable photos of their kids is great. Especially that not everybody can afford multiple photos a game or one from each at prices of $25 and up. I say do what works for you. Having managed a solicitation photography business (both sport, and tourist attractions) for a huge nation wide company i know all about price gouging and bottom line profits. I'm sick of people complaining about prices and what not. Don't want it? don't buy it. I think what youre doing is providing a great and affordable service, making some profits of it and pissing of the competition. Its a dog eat dog world and they complain for doing so but hell if it was me i'd do the same.

Well I for one appreciate the folks who do post here, especially the ones who have managed to become established in their field. I also appreciate the input and insight from folks who make a little income on the side and use photography as a self-supporting hobby.

I do have a question, but it's not relative to the discussion(s) at hand so I'll either post a new thread or send off a PM.

And for now I'll have to see if I can find a GWC sticker for my car. If things go well over the next year or three I can just cover it up whenever the time is right.

How the hell can you print an 8x10 for $2.00?

Is it archive quality paper and inks?

Bosscat wrote in post #12333688
How the hell can you print an 8x10 for $2.00?

Is it archive quality paper and inks?

Yes, it is. Shop around.

Wow. I stepped on a plane Sunday evening and by the time I arrived in Stuttgart Osama was dead and this thread had really taken off.

I think the pricing discussion has really taken off. This is how I think of it. Never mind per image / per print pricing. When I shoot a team for action I will invest five hours (3.5 shooting, 1.5 processing). What is the most revenue I can generate for my five hours?

If I can get the parents to pay me a few hundred bucks before I even start shooting then I am already ahead of the guy who is shooting on spec. If I can make another couple hundred on the back end despite my crazy low prices, then I'm looking at $100/hour gross doing something I enjoy. There is not a ton of money available in youth action sports - get what you can and if you do not love it then shoot something more lucrative. I'm sure wedding, portrait and T&I shooters make more.

I also want to circle back to the topic of processing. When I shoot a team I might start with 400 images. I flip through and cull everything that lacks action, lacks a face or is slightly OOF. When I'm not hitting the 'X' button to cull in Lightroom, I'm hitting the jersey number. Within an hour I can cull and sort my 400 down to 100 keepers that I'll send to my website. This site organizes them automatically. If you get adept with the software, another 20% time investment in processing can really improve the material.

This thread amazes me. I had a post deleted a few months back for saying that someone I ran into while shooting was "clueless." This thread is titled "Had a clueless guy accuse me of taking away his business" and going 7 pages long. I'm clueless as to how this thread can be ok but my post was deleted.

Sorry mods, I'm befuddled over this. Maybe one of you could explain it to me to aid me in staying withing accepted POTN boundaries. Which is something I wish to do to maintain my hopefully good standing here. I'm truly mystified as to what I can or cannot say now.

luciddreamer wrote in post #12334195
This thread amazes me. I had a post deleted a few months back for saying that someone I ran into while shooting was "clueless." This thread is titled "Had a clueless guy accuse me of taking away his business" and going 7 pages long. I'm clueless as to how this thread can be ok but my post was deleted.

Sorry mods, I'm befuddled over this. Maybe one of you could explain it to me to aid me in staying withing accepted POTN boundaries. Which is something I wish to do to maintain my hopefully good standing here. I'm truly mystified as to what I can or cannot say now.

It depends whom you are on this site it appears. It, like most things is a clique

luciddreamer wrote in post #12334195
This thread amazes me. I had a post deleted a few months back for saying that someone I ran into while shooting was "clueless." This thread is titled "Had a clueless guy accuse me of taking away his business" and going 7 pages long. I'm clueless as to how this thread can be ok but my post was deleted.

Sorry mods, I'm befuddled over this. Maybe one of you could explain it to me to aid me in staying withing accepted POTN boundaries. Which is something I wish to do to maintain my hopefully good standing here. I'm truly mystified as to what I can or cannot say now.

This is a non-pro thread. Because we are on a non-pro forum. aka POTSB (Photographers-On-The-Short-Bus). Or that's what I was told above.

JeffreyG wrote in post #12334104
Yes, it is. Shop around.

I have, and nobody prints an 8x10 in my area for 2 bucks........not even Wal-Mart, they want $2.97 and the nearest Costco is 50 miles away and at the price of fuel, that is a waste of whatever the savings appears to be.

The fact is, once someone like yourself goes in offering to shoot for free, or at below cost rates, that then becomes the new standard that people expect.

cbknight wrote in post #12334225
This is a non-pro thread. Because we are on a non-pro forum. aka POTSB (Photographers-On-The-Short-Bus). Or that's what I was told above.

You have to put a disclaimer in posts like these, as somebody like myself may find humour in this and have liquid come out my nose from laughing so hard.