Novice using flash at gala function - pointers please

Hi all,

A novice needs some advice please. I’m helping out(as a volunteer) taking photos of a charity gala night in a couple of weeks. I have a 40D, 24-70 2.8, 50 1.8, 580exII (plus stofen diffuser). The venue will be held in a large room with high ceilings. Walls and ceilings are dark so bouncing the flash around won’t be viable. Bummer.

There will be an area set aside for celebs/guests to have their photos taken as they arrive, kind of “red carpet” style. What I need help with is how to use the flash while it’s on the hotshoe. Do I just point it straight at them and fire away? Should I angle it up a bit and pull the bounce card out? Should I bother with the stofen or are these really just power inhibitors .

What about when everyone is seated and I’m taking candid’s of the guests whilst the room lights are down. When I have used the flash in the past, light fall off has killed the images. Over-exposed up front, fading off to black a few people back. How do I handle this(remember I can’t bounce),should I not use flash just high iso? Shots are pretty noisy at 400 in the dark and I reckon I’d need to go out to 800 which will render them pretty crap.(please don’t say I need a 5DII or 7D, I’m bleeding for one now and you mentioning it will just kill me. haha)

Here’s a link to the night they held last year. If you have time and can be bothered looking, you can get a bit of a feel of the room from some of these images. Don’t think I’m allowed to directly post the images so that’s why I haven’t done so.

Thoughts on how to position people, angles, just anything you can think of would be fantastic.

Any advice will be most graciously received, and it will give me a bit of time to practice it also.
Thanks so much.

swoffa wrote in post #12399485
Hi all,

A novice needs some advice please. I’m helping out(as a volunteer) taking photos of a charity gala night in a couple of weeks. I have a 40D, 24-70 2.8, 50 1.8, 580exII (plus stofen diffuser). The venue will be held in a large room with high ceilings. Walls and ceilings are dark so bouncing the flash around won’t be viable. Bummer.

There will be an area set aside for celebs/guests to have their photos taken as they arrive, kind of “red carpet” style. What I need help with is how to use the flash while it’s on the hotshoe. Do I just point it straight at them and fire away? Should I angle it up a bit and pull the bounce card out? Should I bother with the stofen or are these really just power inhibitors .

What about when everyone is seated and I’m taking candid’s of the guests whilst the room lights are down. When I have used the flash in the past, light fall off has killed the images. Over-exposed up front, fading off to black a few people back. How do I handle this(remember I can’t bounce),should I not use flash just high iso? Shots are pretty noisy at 400 in the dark and I reckon I’d need to go out to 800 which will render them pretty crap.(please don’t say I need a 5DII or 7D, I’m bleeding for one now and you mentioning it will just kill me. haha)

Here’s a link to the night they held last year. If you have time and can be bothered looking, you can get a bit of a feel of the room from some of these images. Don’t think I’m allowed to directly post the images so that’s why I haven’t done so.

Thoughts on how to position people, angles, just anything you can think of would be fantastic.

Any advice will be most graciously received, and it will give me a bit of time to practice it also.
Thanks so much.

If you can't bounce then using direct flash at a higher ISO and lower shutter speeds can help balance out the ambient light. Of course it's not as good as bouncing but it's usable. I'm not sure why you are saying ISO 800 is "pretty crap"

for example -
XSi (450D) with direct on-camera flash at ISO 800, SS 1/50
(Tamron 17-50 2.8)

OK maybe I was a hard when I said crappy. But most shots I take above 400 start getting pretty noisy. Maybe it's me and the way I shoot. I don't do much shooting in low light so it's most likely me. I'll dig up a shot from my brothers birthday so you can see why I'm apprehensive?

If I can get the images to look like the above I'll be stoked.
I appreciate the advice. Thankyou.

Am I better to shoot in TV or AV do you think or maybe manual?
I think the flash would be best in ettl so I'll stick with that.

1/60, 2.8, iso 200, 24mm, spot metered( maybe that was an issue and should have used evaluative)
This is with LR exposure boost +2.35 also.

IMAGE LINK: http://imageshack.us/p​hoto/my-images/688/dayz.jpg/

ISO 200? You need to harden up about high ISO

The camera is no excuse, here's a photo also from the 40D at ISO 1600. Noise? What noise?

swoffa wrote in post #12399485
I have a 40D, 24-70 2.8, 50 1.8, 580exII (plus stofen diffuser). The venue will be held in a large room with high ceilings. Walls and ceilings are dark so bouncing the flash around won’t be viable. Bummer.

First throw the stofen in the bin. Secondly, those make it harder, but not impossible.

Dark Walls and Ceilings:

swoffa wrote in post #12399485
There will be an area set aside for celebs/guests to have their photos taken as they arrive, kind of “red carpet” style. What I need help with is how to use the flash while it’s on the hotshoe. Do I just point it straight at them and fire away? Should I angle it up a bit and pull the bounce card out? Should I bother with the stofen or are these really just power inhibitors .

Not sure what the scene is like so don't want to give wrong advice

swoffa wrote in post #12399485
What about when everyone is seated and I’m taking candid’s of the guests whilst the room lights are down. When I have used the flash in the past, light fall off has killed the images. Over-exposed up front, fading off to black a few people back. How do I handle this(remember I can’t bounce),should I not use flash just high iso? Shots are pretty noisy at 400 in the dark and I reckon I’d need to go out to 800 which will render them pretty crap.(please don’t say I need a 5DII or 7D, I’m bleeding for one now and you mentioning it will just kill me. haha)

Take your ISO to ISO 1600. Set your lens wide open. Bounce your flash at an angle so that when the light reflects back, it hits their face straight on. So for example if they are seated in front of you talking to a person on THEIR left, you point your flash over your right shoulder so that when it reflects back it is hitting THEIR leftward facing face (they are facing your right hand side)

swoffa wrote in post #12401708
OK maybe I was a hard when I said crappy. But most shots I take above 400 start getting pretty noisy. Maybe it's me and the way I shoot. I don't do much shooting in low light so it's most likely me. I'll dig up a shot from my brothers birthday so you can see why I'm apprehensive?

40D can handle up to ISO 3200. I usually max it at ISO 1600 though because if you mess the exposure at ISO 3200 it's over. Shots are barely usable if you have to push the 40D to ISO 6400 as it will become soft and purplish. Try and not underexpose at ISO 1600

DRAG your shutter. The amount of shutter speed you need depends on how much you are exposing. If you are exposing for ambient, you need a lot, but if you are, say, underexposing 2 stops, you can get sharp photos even at like 1/20 or something - experiment a bit, chimp, and reshoot. I generally set it at 1/30 and forget it but it depends on the scene.

In that situation I would have gone:
Evaluative metering
ETTL +2/3 Bounced
1/20 (wide scenes = less detail per person = higher tolerance for blur, lower shutter speeds ok as long as (IF) you can handhold)
ISO 1600
f/2.8

swoffa wrote in post #12401708
OK maybe I was a hard when I said crappy. But most shots I take above 400 start getting pretty noisy. Maybe it's me and the way I shoot. I don't do much shooting in low light so it's most likely me.
Am I better to shoot in TV or AV do you think or maybe manual?
I think the flash would be best in ettl so I'll stick with that.

yeah, it's you!
seriously, put the camera in manual mode, flash in ETTL mode. Start with ISO 800 and f4.5 SS 1/100 and see the results. Don't be afraid to use ISO 1600 !

XSi (450D) with direct on-camera flash, manual mode, yongnuo flash in ETTL - Tamron 17-50 2.8
ISO 1600 , f5.0 SS 1/40

40D is an excellent camera, especially when u want to shot high ISO. you really dont start to see noise until you get higher than 1600 ISO.

smorter wrote in post #12402162
DRAG your shutter. The amount of shutter speed you need depends on how much you are exposing. If you are exposing for ambient, you need a lot, but if you are, say, underexposing 2 stops, you can get sharp photos even at like 1/20 or something - experiment a bit, chimp, and reshoot. I generally set it at 1/30 and forget it but it depends on the scene.

AV is what I use but it is dangerous because the camera metering is fooled by certain scenes (e.g. very dark backgrounds) and will drag the shutter too long creating motion blurred ruined photos.

+1

I used to have a 40D. It has a really handy mode for automatically dragging the shutter with flash. Works great for events like this.

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Use ETTL, pull up the bounce card on the 580EX and then angle the flash head at 45 degrees. You're all done.

As far as getting the background not to "black out" use the slowest shutter speed you can without causing camera shake.

Stofen diffusers are (IMO) pretty much useless.

Wow thanks guys. Really appreciate the lesson here. That learning curve took another tweak again.

watt100 wrote in post #12402207
yeah, it's you!

Yep it certainly was. Hopefully now I see some improvement.

smorter wrote in post #12402087
You need to harden up about high ISO

haha. Yes, got it now. Sometimes it takes a little shake.
And thanks for such a great reply too. Really, thanks. If I could send you chocolates….

Wandered around the house with it at 800 and 1600 dragging the shutter, bouncing the flash, WHAT a difference!
Where I've been failing on previous stuff is clearly not exposing enough. I now see that if I get the exposure much better, doing some pp actually works. On previous attempts (debacles) I was under exposed and trying to lift the exposure in post resulting in atrocious noise. I'm going to seriously annoy my family in the evenings over the next week with this.

Daylight, iso 100, underexposed…easy to pull the shot up. Because I wasn't able to pull up underexposed high iso from early on when I got my camera, I've been scared off high iso ever since. Why didn't I ask you guys sooner.

If I get shots like you guys, that will be great.
I've saved this post to the screen on my phone so I have one touch access to it. If I feel I need a quick refresher on the night I'll have it right at hand.

Did I thank you guys.
Seriously thanks.

IMO, using the STOFEN type diffuser reflector wastes a lot of light.

I use a Stroboframe off-camera bracket, a 550EX (precursor to the 580EX series), a Canon Off-Camera Cord and a Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Pro (www.dembflashproducts.​com) as my diffuser/reflector.

I bounce the flash usually straight up but, occasionally tilting it slightly towards the subject (when the subject is at a distance from the camera).

The variable angle Flip-It portion of the Demb Flash Diffuser Pro helps be use the flash in areas that either have no ceilings, ceilings too tall or ceilings too dark for effective bounce work.

This flash combination provides very nice lighting in most any type of venue...

IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …LJM#1245211231_​aEf5x-A-LB

IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …LJM#1244551055_​ox8GE-A-LB

Well I've listened to you lot and took the 40D to my sons indoor soccer training. Well, need I say more. You've got me sold well and truly. Looking at the 40D in a new light now, and re-inventing the way I use it.
No flash.
1\400
f/2.8
ISO 1600
Bumped the NR in LR3 up to max and that's about it for the moment.

2000 x 1333

EMBED PREVENTED, IMAGE TOO LARGE: http://img705.imagesha​ck.us/img705/7853/liam​soccor.jpg Click here to see our image rules.

Make yourself a bounce card. I had some leftover white 1/4" thick foam board that I use to mount 8X10 prints. My bounce card was cut from same material using an exacto knife. Rough dimensions of my card that looks like a large "T" are:

2" wide at base. Base is about 3" tall. This the part of the card I attach to the back of my 430EX II with a rubber band. The top part is roughly 6" wide and 4" tall.

Affix bounce card to flash with thick rubber band, point flash at ceiling, set flash to ETTL, adjust ISO until you have correct exposure. It's a very simple set it and forget it solution.

dave