definitely need a much lighter hairlight

TMR Design wrote in post #12462513
Maximum load is quite different from maximum stability.

You said that the stand wasn't falling over. That's essentially what the spec says.

I can 'balance' things with a 600 Watt second strobe and 54" x 72" softbox on the end of a 6 foot boom and mounted to a heavy duty light stand and all the numbers are within tolerance... BUT, I would never use that combination without adding extra weight to the center of gravity at the base of the light stand for extra stability.

If you're working with clients you really want to make everything 'spill proof' and almost overcompensate to eliminate all the iffy and unstable grip gear.

I agree. Which is why I don't want to take that chance again. I don't work with clients (yet), just family for now until I'm comfortable enough. Getting wheels or sturdier stands is probably not an option for me considering my available home studio space is shrinking. I have to make due with the space that I will have. Which leaves me with the original question. Are there compact low-profile lights available that produce at least similar output to my Genesis 200s?

coeng wrote in post #12462551
I agree. Which is why I don't want to take that chance again. I don't work with clients (yet), just family for now until I'm comfortable enough. Getting wheels or sturdier stands is probably not an option for me considering my available home studio space is shrinking. I have to make due with the space that I will have. Which leaves me with the original question. Are there compact low-profile lights available that produce at least similar output to my Genesis 200s?

If space and real estate is an issue then you may want to look at Autopoles as a solution for some fixed mounting points for hair and accent lights.

I'm not sure what type of strobes you're thinking of but in the grand scheme of things, a more 'compact' strobe won't really save much space. A few inches at best.

I still think that making better use of the space with the right hardware is a better solution.

That's just my 2 cents, though.

TMR Design wrote in post #12462828
If space and real estate is an issue then you may want to look at Autopoles as a solution for some fixed mounting points for hair and accent lights.

Never knew about them until I just looked them up. Probably not a good choice because I have a drop ceiling in the basement.

This is something like what I'll be dealing with:
http://www.powellfulcr​eations.com/2004/2005/​Studio/Studio.htm

That hairlight looks rather compact but I can't tell how its mounted. Almost looks like its attached to the background stand.
Looks it is has a grid on it as well.

I agree with Robert on that you won't save much space with any strobes, by adding the strip box and all that you are down to only 6 feet on the height. You may want to consider different setups with low ceilings. I have seen in someone's basement studio where the photographer taped some silver sheets on the ceiling to bounce light down to create hair light, or just two kickers from side raising higher and aiming down a little, just some ideas to think about.

coeng wrote in post #12462944
This is something like what I'll be dealing with:
http://www.powellfulcr​eations.com/2004/2005/​Studio/Studio.htm

That hairlight looks rather compact but I can't tell how its mounted. Almost looks like its attached to the background stand.
Looks it is has a grid on it as well.

Even in that shot, how is a compact strobe helping? It's not. What you really need is a way to mount the strobe to avoid or eliminate the foot print of the light stands and the possibility or a spill.

There are many way to have an adjustable boom arm mounted to a wall or vertical pole. You can even use Autopoles going horizontally and use them as a method of hanging a light fixture.

A variation on this is what we did in my buddies studio: we have a AlienBee B800 hanging upside down from the ceiling. We positioned it so that it would be appropriate as a hair light shooting diagonally from where we set the main light. It is on a hard wired remote power slider with all the wires up along the ceiling ( as is the power cord ) out of the way. It can't fall, nobody can trip over wires. The disadvantage is it can't be easily moved. Rob's solution of using an autopole would make it more convenient in that you could move it if need be.

Our plan when we get the time is to make a sliding bracket up there so we can still have it hanging safely from above, but be able to move it fore/aft, and left/right.

george m w wrote in post #12464656
A variation on this is what we did in my buddies studio: we have a AlienBee B800 hanging upside down from the ceiling. We positioned it so that it would be appropriate as a hair light shooting diagonally from where we set the main light. It is on a hard wired remote power slider with all the wires up along the ceiling ( as is the power cord ) out of the way. It can't fall, nobody can trip over wires. The disadvantage is it can't be easily moved. Rob's solution of using an autopole would make it more convenient in that you could move it if need be.

Our plan when we get the time is to make a sliding bracket up there so we can still have it hanging safely from above, but be able to move it fore/aft, and left/right.

Hey George,

Are you going to DIY a track of some sort or are you going to look at some of the track systems available? Even the simplest of those seem to be very expensive.

Hi Rob,
I'm going to DIY. At Lowe's they have 10' lengths of T-channel. I'll see if I can describe this with words. We will run two of these from the back wall straight out towards camera position. Then I will take another pair, and weld them together end to end. Won't need the entire 20 feet, but probably 16 feet or so. This cross piece will be side to side in the studio. End result will be this light will be able to be positioned from near the back wall to out towards us 10', and anywhere side to side as wide as 16' ( or more if we leave it longer ). This way we will be able to use the light for whatever purpose needed. We'll also be able to hang other light on it if need be. I'll probably make t-nuts to fit in the channel so that all this slides easily, but there would be other ways to do it with just bolts and perhaps washers or short lengths of flat strap steel that would slide in the channel.
The channel material is steel, so this will be very strong. Also the channel is only about an inch or a little more tall, so the overall profile is only going to hang down a couple of inches.

I hope this description makes sense. When we do it, I'll take photos along the way. It may be a bit much of a DIY for some folks, but I have machine tools and a welder at my disposal. Even if you didn't have that, all this could be done with off the shelf items, although you might have to get someone to do the welding for you. Unless you can find this channel material in a longer length.

Here is an attempt at making a rough drawing of what it looks like from the end. The red is the t-nut. It has a hole in it from bottom to top, that is threaded so a bolt can be screwed into it. The black represents the steel channel. You can see that the t-nut can slide the length of the channel, but it cannot fall out of the channel.

Edit: I'm mulling over in my head also a way to make the light be able to easily be pulled down from the ceiling, and then easily raise back up.

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I admire your use of the word 'easily'. LOL

Sounds like a great idea George. Are you sure that steel against steel rather than some form of roller will allow you to easily move the lights in the track?

And you may be right Rob about how easily/difficult it may move. We have discussed upside down t-section, and making a roller carrier using skateboard wheels. We're trying to keep it fairly simple, but strong, and affordable. Ideally, it would be cool to have a hanging scissors rig.

So you are hanging an 8 pound light over your subject's head, with a 15 pound counterweight on the other end to counter balance the 8 pound light and the entire enchalada is wobbly. I hope you have a good lawyer and LOTS of insurance.

Now call me stupid, but it seems to me the obvious answer is to get a lighter weight flash unit, say one pound or less. Assuming the guy above knows what he is talking about needing a counterweight that is double the weight of the flash unit, that means you would need a counterweight of a whopping two pounds! For my hair light I use the PG 3001ML from www.photographerswareh​ouse.com along with their 12 x 12 softbox which weighs another five ounces. Cost? About $140.00.

Benji

HI Benji,

A friend of mine has a handful of the PG4001ML and he loves them. I've heard the 3001 is also good but I think his reason for going with the 4001 was because there was an accessory that it accepted that the 3001 did not.

Excellent lights.

I like the suggestions for mounting the light to the ceiling; you could probably use a speedlight for your hairlight with a little softbox or even a big loose toughspun sheet on it. A lot of times we'll just have the hairlight on a stand behind and above the seamless roll; usually for portraits (esp. kids) you don't need the full height of the seamless.

The light that Benji linked to doesn't weigh much more than a Speedlight with batteries or a battery pack.

I don't see using a Speedlight as a practical solution here.