Family, the anti-business!

John Schell wrote in post #12464774
Interesting. I'm wondering if somewhere along the line you set a precedent of doing free work earlier in your career.

Nope. I've worked with other family members on similar types of events, charged, and they've come back for more. This is my first issue with family.

Staszek wrote in post #12464893
Nope. I've worked with other family members on similar types of events, charged, and they've come back for more. This is my first issue with family.

If they said they would pay you $100 or whatever then this is what you should be paid. Also spouses come into play. So maybe you family member was egged on by their spouse to say " hey your family and it's should be free"

Whatever you do, do it in person with the family member you made the deal with. Lay it on the line so to speak.

Good luck..

My whole family lives overseas, so I don't have such problem.

However I do have friends that expect free photography. Well, one friend. So I only photograph her when I most definitely don't have any paid clients, which means it's a short notice for her. BUT she sent at least 10 paying clients my way so I don't complain.

I have a close family, we all do things for each other. Nothing is too much.

It goes two ways. I've indirectly pissed off some family members of the couples that hired me to shoot their weddings. In the last case there was a photographer in the family that shot ALL the weddings in their family, but wasn't the couple's style. Instead they asked me, and then the she felt passed-by.

I like shooting, and I'm pretty sure to always have my camera with me in family events anyway. If it's a wedding or something, or I am expected to bring lighting gear for group shots, I expect to be at least compensated, if not paid.

If I had a plumber in the family, I certainly would not expect him to hurry over and fix my overflowing toilet. What the heck? If I were the plumber in the family, I certainly wouldn't want everyone else calling me for all their little plumbing problems.

That doesn't mean if I noticed my mother-in-law's toilet was running incessantly that I wouldn't offer to fix it for her. But they should not have an expectation that I'm going to be doing free plumbing for everyone in the family.

And if my brother discovers that all the galvanized pipe in his house needs to be replaced, I might give him my expert advise on how to get it done properly and at the least expense...by another plumber. But I'm certainly not going to do it for free.

I have one sister-in-law who is both greedy and needy...and makes more money than I do. I'm a pretty competant DIY, and if I'd let her, she'd have me working in her house every weekend. Sorry, no. Some peole are "users," and she is one.

As a photographer, I am torn with family for only one reason: I do deeply believe in the heritage importance of the portraits that I do. So I will do a set of family portraits free simply for the sake of our later generations. But that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to do all the kids' birthday parties, senior pictures, weddings, et cetera, ad infinititum, ad nauseum, for free.

I don't have much of an issue when it comes to shooting friends/family for free...

Would you object to helping a friend of relative move, for free?

We've all asked our friends and relatives to help us move, and they've never billed us (at least not in my case)... and taking photos of someone or someone's event is a whole lot easier than lifting couches and going up and down a set of stairs all day long!

I don't think any decent person has a problem with helping others (especially family) but when people EXPECT you to do stuff for free and take advantage of you, that's where I have a problem.

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12469807
I don't have much of an issue when it comes to shooting friends/family for free...

Would you object to helping a friend of relative move, for free?

We've all asked our friends and relatives to help us move, and they've never billed us (at least not in my case)... and taking photos of someone or someone's event is a whole lot easier than lifting couches and going up and down a set of stairs all day long!

I get paid in beer, pizza, and the knowledge that they will help me when I move. It's also a rather indirect comparison unless you are a mover by trade, or take time off work to help them move.

That being said, in the OP's case they agreed to pay, and are now attempting a guilt trip to avoid their obligation. After the OP canceled a paying gig to do it for them!

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12469807
I don't have much of an issue when it comes to shooting friends/family for free...

Would you object to helping a friend of relative move, for free?

We've all asked our friends and relatives to help us move, and they've never billed us (at least not in my case)... and taking photos of someone or someone's event is a whole lot easier than lifting couches and going up and down a set of stairs all day long!

Hm, taking photographs is alot more time consuming and focus oriented and at the end of the day tiering for me then helping you move.

Ask me to help you move, offer some food, you got it.

Ask me to cover your event and develop your photos in a week ALL of them, and you'll get a quote. I guess it depends on your investment, my investment in my craft is very high, and i can't "party" with thousands of dollars of gear around my neck, so either ask me to come hang out have a few drinks, or hire me to cover the event.

I don't mind bartering though, you do what ? Cool, Lets trade.

Csae wrote in post #12472395
Hm, taking photographs is alot more time consuming and focus oriented and at the end of the day tiering for me then helping you move.

Ask me to help you move, offer some food, you got it.

Ask me to cover your event and develop your photos in a week ALL of them, and you'll get a quote. I guess it depends on your investment, my investment in my craft is very high, and i can't "party" with thousands of dollars of gear around my neck, so either ask me to come hang out have a few drinks, or hire me to cover the event.

I don't mind bartering though, you do what ? Cool, Lets trade.

I agree.

Balog wrote in post #12472351
I get paid in beer, pizza, and the knowledge that they will help me when I move. It's also a rather indirect comparison unless you are a mover by trade, or take time off work to help them move.

That being said, in the OP's case they agreed to pay, and are now attempting a guilt trip to avoid their obligation. After the OP canceled a paying gig to do it for them!

Exactly.

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12469807
I don't have much of an issue when it comes to shooting friends/family for free...

Would you object to helping a friend of relative move, for free?

We've all asked our friends and relatives to help us move, and they've never billed us (at least not in my case)... and taking photos of someone or someone's event is a whole lot easier than lifting couches and going up and down a set of stairs all day long!

You're comparing apples to oranges. I have no problem helping someone move, especially for beer and pizza. But I am not a professional mover.

When someone ask a professional photographer to come cover the event as a professional, then there has to be payment. If they wanted me to come as family, enjoy the event as a guest, and take a couple snaps, I would have gladly done that if I were available.

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12469807
I don't have much of an issue when it comes to shooting friends/family for free...

Would you object to helping a friend of relative move, for free?

We've all asked our friends and relatives to help us move, and they've never billed us (at least not in my case)... and taking photos of someone or someone's event is a whole lot easier than lifting couches and going up and down a set of stairs all day long!

When you help someone move, you HELP them...you don't do it for them. They also take care of all expenses...they rent the truck, buy the boxes, and pack the knicknacks.

I want to see the whole email, just curious how they led up to your quoted text. Also who is the family members, brother, aunt, etc?

My vocation is IT support. My avocation is photography. I have no problems helping family pick out, install or fix their PC. Nor do I object to taking pictures for them (I need the practice). It's family. At the end of the day, that's what life's all about for me.

Your Story Photoart wrote in post #12469845
I don't think any decent person has a problem with helping others (especially family) but when people EXPECT you to do stuff for free and take advantage of you, that's where I have a problem.

This is the point a lot of people seem to be missing with the "family should help each other out" comments. Of course family should help each other out. If a family member said (well I actually have an awful relationship with my extended family, but anyway) "boy, I really need someone to <insert my theoretical marketable skill here>, but they're so expensive" I would strongly consider helping them out for free if it was possible for me. If they asked me "Look, we don't have enough money to pay someone. Could you please come do this for us? We'll find some way to make it up to you" I wouldn't mind a bit.

But these people asked him to do a gig, told him they would pay him, and then after the gig demanded, basically, that he not accept their money. Even if you have the family tradition of a Japanese villager circa 1925, that's out of line.