Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Leica Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Leica Cameras 
Thread started 23 May 2011 (Monday) 11:53
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Leica Lovers Anonymous

 
edge100
Goldmember
1,920 posts
Likes: 16
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
     
Apr 24, 2014 18:13 |  #1966

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16859022 (external link)
Why so critical of the MM edge? Probably Leica's finest digital body.

I've warmed to the MM, to be fair. It's the best digital B&W, by far.

I just don't like digital B&W.

Also, removing the Bayer array from the M9 sensor, and then jacking up the price is cheeky, even for Leica.

But I'll admit, if you like digital B&W, the MM is unparalleled.


Street and editorial photography in Toronto, Canada (external link)
Mirrorless: Fujifilm X-Pro1
Film: Leica MP | Leica M2 | CV Nokton 35/1.4 | CV Nokton 40 f/1.4 | Leitz Summitar 50 f/2 | Canon 50 f/1.2 LTM | Mamiya 7 | Mamiya 80 f/4.0 | Mamiya 150 f/4.5 | Mamiya 43 f/4.5
How to get good colour from C-41 film scans (external link)

Digitizing film with a digital camera (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,335 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5781
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 24, 2014 18:54 |  #1967

Edge yeah the price sucks. But so does the price of the 1DX and whatever the top of the line Nikon is at the moment. I remember when Leica M was over double the price of both the top of the line Nikon and Canon.

I had a one man exhibit last April and a lot of my friends still shoot a lot of film and were stunned when I told them the i,mage were all digital. The prints are stunning. 10,000 ISO looks somewhat like tri x processed in Rodinal 1:50 than digital noise.

Heres a read that I thought you might find interesting.
http://blog.leica-camera.com …e-to-the-monochrom-part2/ (external link)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
edge100
Goldmember
1,920 posts
Likes: 16
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
     
Apr 24, 2014 20:55 |  #1968

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16859162 (external link)
Edge yeah the peice sucks. But so does the price of the 1DX and whatever the top of the line Nikon is at the moment. I remember when Leica M was over double the price of both the top of the line Nikon and Canon.

I had a one man exhibit last April and a lot of my friends still shoot a lot of film and were stunned when I told them the i,mage were all digital. The prints are stunning. 10,000 ISO looks somewhat like tri x processed in Rodinal 1:50 than digital noise.

Heres a read that I thought you might find interesting.
http://blog.leica-camera.com …e-to-the-monochrom-part2/ (external link)

Yeah, I agree; I don't think Leica M bodies are overpriced. Just like a 1DX serves a niche by shooting at a bazillion frames/sec or whatever, Leica bodies serve a niche, too. And they're built much better, to boot.

The lenses...you could argue that $5000 for a 35 'Lux FLE or $7300 for a 50 'Cron APO is pushing it. I appreciate that Leica has to build top-notch glass and make them tiny, and there's a cost premium to that. But those prices are really SO much higher than anything from anyone else, that it's hard to justify. Then again, no one else builds lenses of that build and image quality AND of that size.

I've seen that article, and it's part of what made me come around on the MM (which I was not at all a fan of when it was released). As I said, it's the best digital B&W by a long shot, and, to the extent that this is possible, it's very film-like. If I had one, I'd be inclined to shoot it at 10,000 ISO with a 3 stop ND filter on all the time, just to get some "grain"; ISO 400 is just *SO* clean, it's off-putting.

I personally don't shoot enough B&W to justify an MM, so I'm quite content with my MP and Tri-X. I have thought hard about an M240, but I just have too many other camera-related priorities (e.g. large format kit and a 35 Cron ASPH, mainly). I've also got a freezer full of colour film, and an X-Pro1 that I'm happy with as a semi-low cost digital camera.


Street and editorial photography in Toronto, Canada (external link)
Mirrorless: Fujifilm X-Pro1
Film: Leica MP | Leica M2 | CV Nokton 35/1.4 | CV Nokton 40 f/1.4 | Leitz Summitar 50 f/2 | Canon 50 f/1.2 LTM | Mamiya 7 | Mamiya 80 f/4.0 | Mamiya 150 f/4.5 | Mamiya 43 f/4.5
How to get good colour from C-41 film scans (external link)

Digitizing film with a digital camera (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,335 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5781
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 24, 2014 21:08 |  #1969

The good thing about Leica glass is you wont loose money. My 35 lux is selling for more used now than what I paid for it.

You can always add grain in post. I love the fact that my files look like files they were shot with a Rolleiflex and tri-x. I personally like the fact I can get amazing 13 X 19s without noise shot at 1600 or 3200 ISO. Cleaner than a 5DIII and without the artifacts from conversion.

If I still had a darkroom I would still be shooting film. Probably would still have one of my Blads and I would pick up a M 3 or M 4. Lost it through forced downsizing (divorce) All of my personal work and some of my pro work is B&W so a dedicated B&W was a no brainer for me. I do plan on completely switch to Leica M over the next few years. Really hoping Leica comes out with a mostly manual MP (M-E) like digital M cheaper in cost with the new CMOSIS. If not a new 240 and an M9 for back up for my pro work and dump all the Canon gear.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,335 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5781
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 25, 2014 20:26 |  #1970

http://www.reddotforum​.com …-Leica-T-(Typ-701)-Review (external link)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
J_TULLAR
Goldmember
Avatar
3,011 posts
Likes: 23
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
     
Apr 25, 2014 21:15 |  #1971

edge100 wrote in post #16859412 (external link)
Yeah, I agree; I don't think Leica M bodies are overpriced. Just like a 1DX serves a niche by shooting at a bazillion frames/sec or whatever, Leica bodies serve a niche, too. And they're built much better, to boot.

The lenses...you could argue that $5000 for a 35 'Lux FLE or $7300 for a 50 'Cron APO is pushing it. I appreciate that Leica has to build top-notch glass and make them tiny, and there's a cost premium to that. But those prices are really SO much higher than anything from anyone else, that it's hard to justify. Then again, no one else builds lenses of that build and image quality AND of that size.

I've seen that article, and it's part of what made me come around on the MM (which I was not at all a fan of when it was released). As I said, it's the best digital B&W by a long shot, and, to the extent that this is possible, it's very film-like. If I had one, I'd be inclined to shoot it at 10,000 ISO with a 3 stop ND filter on all the time, just to get some "grain"; ISO 400 is just *SO* clean, it's off-putting.

I personally don't shoot enough B&W to justify an MM, so I'm quite content with my MP and Tri-X. I have thought hard about an M240, but I just have too many other camera-related priorities (e.g. large format kit and a 35 Cron ASPH, mainly). I've also got a freezer full of colour film, and an X-Pro1 that I'm happy with as a semi-low cost digital camera.

I would argue some offerings from Voigtlander, Zeiss and MS optical are about the same quality as leica lenses.


Model Mayhem (external link)
Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,335 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5781
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 25, 2014 21:29 as a reply to  @ J_TULLAR's post |  #1972

Depends on the lens....

But if you spend X on Leica glass you will get it all back and then some. Not always the same on other brands.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
J_TULLAR
Goldmember
Avatar
3,011 posts
Likes: 23
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
     
Apr 26, 2014 09:21 |  #1973

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16861808 (external link)
Depends on the lens....

But if you spend X on Leica glass you will get it all back and then some. Not always the same on other brands.

Not the case anymore, I can find practically any used Leica lens for less than brand new, even the noctilux. The market has leveled off and prices are returning to normal.

http://www.popflash.co​m/11663SPEC (external link)


Model Mayhem (external link)
Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
edge100
Goldmember
1,920 posts
Likes: 16
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
     
Apr 26, 2014 10:11 |  #1974

J_TULLAR wrote in post #16861788 (external link)
I would argue some offerings from Voigtlander, Zeiss and MS optical are about the same quality as leica lenses.

Image quality, perhaps.

Build?? Google: zeiss wobble


Street and editorial photography in Toronto, Canada (external link)
Mirrorless: Fujifilm X-Pro1
Film: Leica MP | Leica M2 | CV Nokton 35/1.4 | CV Nokton 40 f/1.4 | Leitz Summitar 50 f/2 | Canon 50 f/1.2 LTM | Mamiya 7 | Mamiya 80 f/4.0 | Mamiya 150 f/4.5 | Mamiya 43 f/4.5
How to get good colour from C-41 film scans (external link)

Digitizing film with a digital camera (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
J_TULLAR
Goldmember
Avatar
3,011 posts
Likes: 23
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
     
Apr 26, 2014 10:30 |  #1975

edge100 wrote in post #16862720 (external link)
Image quality, perhaps.

Build?? Google: zeiss wobble

Google: Leica Wobble, build quality wont be the same obviously. Your Paying 1/5th the price lol.


Model Mayhem (external link)
Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
edge100
Goldmember
1,920 posts
Likes: 16
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
     
Apr 26, 2014 10:58 |  #1976

J_TULLAR wrote in post #16862776 (external link)
Google: Leica Wobble, build quality wont be the same obviously. Your Paying 1/5th the price lol.

You won't get an argument from me that Leica glass isn't overpriced. It surely is. And none more so than the 23/2 for the T. $2k for a 35 f/3 equivalent?!?

The 35/2 Biogon and 50/1.5 Sonnar are definitely top grade lenses. As is the CV 35/1.2 Nokton mkII. Easily the equal of the Leica counterpart, for much less.

On the other hand, the Zeiss Ikon and Bessa camera are nowhere near the quality of the Leicas, with the notable exception of the ZI viewfinder, which is really excellent.


Street and editorial photography in Toronto, Canada (external link)
Mirrorless: Fujifilm X-Pro1
Film: Leica MP | Leica M2 | CV Nokton 35/1.4 | CV Nokton 40 f/1.4 | Leitz Summitar 50 f/2 | Canon 50 f/1.2 LTM | Mamiya 7 | Mamiya 80 f/4.0 | Mamiya 150 f/4.5 | Mamiya 43 f/4.5
How to get good colour from C-41 film scans (external link)

Digitizing film with a digital camera (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
J_TULLAR
Goldmember
Avatar
3,011 posts
Likes: 23
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
     
Apr 26, 2014 11:15 |  #1977

edge100 wrote in post #16862834 (external link)
You won't get an argument from me that Leica glass isn't overpriced. It surely is. And none more so than the 23/2 for the T. $2k for a 35 f/3 equivalent?!?

The 35/2 Biogon and 50/1.5 Sonnar are definitely top grade lenses. As is the CV 35/1.2 Nokton mkII. Easily the equal of the Leica counterpart, for much less.

On the other hand, the Zeiss Ikon and Bessa camera are nowhere near the quality of the Leicas, with the notable exception of the ZI viewfinder, which is really excellent.

True but they are also 1/5th to 1/6th the price. I also dare say that you couldnt tell if a picture was taken with a bessa and cv 50 1.5 ver2 versus a MP with a 50lux. That being said I prefer leica bodies over bessa's and Zeiss's. Also it seems the new Leica M hasnt really taken off like the M9 did. You can find Leica M bodies for $5.8k now. I think the market is saturated.


Model Mayhem (external link)
Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,335 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5781
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 26, 2014 11:26 |  #1978

J_TULLAR wrote in post #16862653 (external link)
Not the case anymore, I can find practically any used Leica lens for less than brand new, even the noctilux. The market has leveled off and prices are returning to normal.

http://www.popflash.co​m/11663SPEC (external link)

And then some of the rarer glass like the 35 double asph lux is going for 14K + now if you can find one.

My 35 LUX FLE is selling now for more used than what I paid for it...




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
J_TULLAR
Goldmember
Avatar
3,011 posts
Likes: 23
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
     
Apr 26, 2014 11:31 |  #1979

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16862887 (external link)
And then some of the rarer glass like the 35 double asph lux is going for 14K + now if you can find one.

My 35 LUX FLE is selling now for more used than what I paid for it...

Well with price increases the used prices goes up as well, same with most lenses (brand). Did you pay less than $4600 for your lens? Because retail now is $5150. Any rare lens is going to end up being worth more than it was bought brand new. Those are collectors. Konica Hexanon 60 1.2's go for 10k! Canon LM 50 1.2's go for 5k in mint condition. Normal Leica lenses however can now be bought for less than retail. Ten years ago you could buy Noctilux's for 1500 bucks lol. Its just how the market is popular at any given time.


Model Mayhem (external link)
Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,335 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5781
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 26, 2014 11:31 |  #1980

J_TULLAR wrote in post #16862868 (external link)
True but they are also 1/5th to 1/6th the price. I also dare say that you couldnt tell if a picture was taken with a bessa and cv 50 1.5 ver2 versus a MP with a 50lux. That being said I prefer leica bodies over bessa's and Zeiss's. Also it seems the new Leica M hasnt really taken off like the M9 did. You can find Leica M bodies for $5.8k now. I think the market is saturated.

On the world wide web you at 85KB on a 96 PPI monitor from a site that compresses the $hit out if the file you can't tall something taken with a 2 MP phone shot from a Contax 645 and a Phase One IQ180 back.

Monos are still fetching good prices though....




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

719,501 views & 1,248 likes for this thread
Leica Lovers Anonymous
FORUMS Leica Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Leica Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Overdoer
812 guests, 207 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.