Tried HSS and ETTL with on camera flash - what happened?

Tried to dial in HSS with my 430 EX II at home prior to my son's graduation ceremony Sunday. Knew I'd be shooting at 3pm on a warm, sunny day outside the school. What worked at home quickly went out the window by way of many blown out shots ... not due to the flash, but perhaps to a poor f-stop and shutter speed recipe?

I wanted a darker BG and the flash to act as 'fill' rather than what I got. Where should I have been in terms of settings and what to try next time?

1. f/6.3; 1/400; ISO 100; flash fired; spot meter; manual exposure. Initially I had the aperture open to f/2.8 and a really high shutter speed (maybe 1/4000) and everything was hugely blown out. Example:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …erphotography/5​758752458/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …erphotography/5​758208261/

Maybe your spot metering?

I'm afraid I have more questions than answers.

1. If you want the BG to be darker, then your flash is the main light, not fill light. As I understand, in situations like this, usually the flash is only there to eliminate shadows on the people, not to make the BG darker.

2. I'm not sure why in your sample pictures there are still shadows. I just did some graduation pictures, using ETTL (with the help of PW TT5 to get the flash off camera). It should not be hard to eliminate shadows from the face, especially when your flash is on the hotshoe.

3. My guess (which is not reliable) is that you used spot metering. When you aimed at a very dark spot, like his tie, the whole exposure will be blown out. But how comes f2.8 and 1/4000 gave such a blown-out exposure? I don't know. Maybe it's really bright out there then?

colormaniac wrote in post #12476213
I'm afraid I have more questions than answers.

1. If you want the BG to be darker, then your flash is the main light, not fill light. As I understand, in situations like this, usually the flash is only there to eliminate shadows on the people, not to make the BG darker.

2. I'm not sure why in your sample pictures there are still shadows. I just did some graduation pictures, using ETTL (with the help of PW TT5 to get the flash off camera). It should not be hard to eliminate shadows from the face, especially when your flash is on the hotshoe.

3. My guess (which is not reliable) is that you used spot metering. When you aimed at a very dark spot, like his tie, the whole exposure will be blown out. But how comes f2.8 and 1/4000 gave such a blown-out exposure? I don't know. Maybe it's really bright out there then?

It was REALLY bright out there. Also kind of a hazy sunshine. I did use spot metering and probably should have been on evaluate, maybe? Back to the drawing board for me!

Thanks for responding with some suggestions. I'll keep working on it.

dave

snyderman wrote in post #12476052
Any ideas on a BETTER recipe for using HHS in ETTL mode with the 430 EX II on the hotshoe? Thanks in advance.

dave

Try this
First meter for the background - and then set the camera on Manual to underexpose the BG by about 3 stops.
Now on the camera mounted flash, (make sure HSS and ETTL are "on") set the flash exp comp to +1 or +2 stops (can done either on flash or camera) - experiment around these settings. Try some variations around this and you should get what you want.

Just keep in mind, that you should not be more than a few feet away from your subjects as your aperture values may be very small and the flash may run out of power.

This effect would be better achieved later in the day when the sun is not so strong or when its cloudy.

Tell us how it went.

EDIT: Looking at your 1st pic above, based on your exif info you posted, my guess it your combo should have been around f6.3 / 1/1000 (or 1/2000) at ISO100 (This is a guesstimate based on your info above)

Well from the looks of it, your backround wasnt properly exposed. Its blown out a bit. Myself, I would have exposed the backround in camera to about minus 1 or 2 then used the flash and fec to dial in the light on the subject.

Keep in mind at 1/4000 your 430 in HSS mode isnt going to be contributing much to the exposure so the problem is likely a metering issue. As for darkening the background, you cant really overpower the sun with a (single) speedlite in the middle of the day regardless of using HSS or not.

gonzogolf wrote in post #12476369
Keep in mind at 1/4000 your 430 in HSS mode isnt going to be contributing much to the exposure so the problem is likely a metering issue. As for darkening the background, you cant really overpower the sun with a (single) speedlite in the middle of the day regardless of using HSS or not.

+1. The suggestion of how to darken the BG in the previous two posts assumes that the speedlite is powerful enough. Yet most likely it is not.

snyderman wrote in post #12476052
1. f/6.3; 1/400; ISO 100; flash fired; spot meter; manual exposure. Initially I had the aperture open to f/2.8 and a really high shutter speed (maybe 1/4000) and everything was hugely blown out. Example:



2. f/6.3; 1/160 (????); ISO 100; flash fired; spot meter; manual exposure. As you can see, the shutter was much slower and a decent exposure occurred.

You had Sunny 16 conditions...1/100 f/16, or 1/400 f/8 equivalent exposure. You shot #1 at about +0.33EV, and #2 at +0.66EV...you were NOT underexposing the background at all, you were overexposing the background, so there was no way to hope for a 'darkened background'!

You should have set EC to -2EV, or put the Manual exposure indicator at -2, in order to underexpose the background, then shot with flash set to FEC = 0 or FEC = +1

colormaniac wrote in post #12476397
+1. The suggestion of how to darken the BG in the previous two posts assumes that the speedlite is powerful enough. Yet most likely it is not.

Exposing the sky -2 stops in camera has nothing to do with the flash. The flash is simply used for fill to lighten the shadows. Yes?

Keep in mind that your aperture is the main determining factor of how much the flash will contribute to the exposure. Shutter speed had little effect on it. So your f/2.8 shot means you were letting in LOTS of flash.

HastyPhoto wrote in post #12476418
Exposing the sky -2 stops in camera has nothing to do with the flash. The flash is simply used for fill to lighten the shadows. Yes?

I'm not sure. The key issue, I suppose, is whether one Speedlite is powerful enough to do such a job in a bright afternoon. Other factors like flash-to-subject distance need to be taken into consideration as well.

But metering the background first is important, especially when the OP used spot metering.

Good suggestions and some useful things to try. Keep 'em coming if you can.

Wilt ... thanks for the technical info. At least I know why the BG was blown in most images now. Thank you!

dave

gonzogolf wrote in post #12476369
Keep in mind at 1/4000 your 430 in HSS mode isnt going to be contributing much to the exposure so the problem is likely a metering issue. As for darkening the background, you cant really overpower the sun with a (single) speedlite in the middle of the day regardless of using HSS or not.

For one/two person shots like these, it should not be that hard as OP has no modifer on the flash and flash is quite close to the subject (I guess).

Shoot in manual exposure mode. Select your Aperture for the DOF that you need. And then ISO and ss for background exposure. Now adjust FEC to control subject expsoure. Simple.