Sigma's Foveon Sensor Better than Bayer Sensors Used Canon/Nikon Cameras?

I've read in a few places where Sigma's SD15 DSLR with Foveon Sensor produces noticeably better color and crisper detail over the Bayer Sensors used in Canon and other DSLR's. I've view pics taken with the Sigma SD15 and they are very nice. At 989.00 for the SD15 body it seems like a good buy but I'm sure Sigma lenses are the only lenses that will fit on this camera. I don't like Sigma's 5 point sensor compared to Canon's 9 point sensor. Any one out there using a Sigma SD15?

Take a look at the SD1 thread for some, uh, interesting discussion on the merits of the Foveon sensor. You'll find that the new high-res Foveon chip (not the one in the SD15) does in fact perform nicely in color and detail terms, but poorly on noise. And even though the detail is impressive, its "46MP" (i.e. 15 actual MP of resolution) sensor can't compete on that front with, say, a 5d2 or A900.

The general consensus among reviewers seems to be that if you don't care about noise (past ISO 400 the Foveons are very week compared to others), the Foveon sensors beat CMOS/CCD sensors of an equivalent size. For example, the SD15's sensor (which has an actual resolution of 5MP) would likely be better than the original Digital Rebel's 6MP sensor, but not as good as a 40D with 10MP. (In fact, here's a review that says just that.)

Personally, I wouldn't go near an SD15 for the following reasons:

•1.7x crop narrows your FoVs down even farther and takes away even more DoF control
•Real resolution of a bit less than 5MP. Detail is impressive, which means you might get nice 11x14 prints out of it, but if you need to crop or enlarge much more than that, you're out of luck
•No way am I going to pay $1000 for a 5MP camera
•Limited to Sigma lenses, as opposed to the 7+ brands one can use unadapted on a Canon
•The aforementioned 5-point AF
•No live view, which gives you one fewer option for focusing "legacy" lenses
•Did I mention the price?

Perhaps one of the DP series compacts would work for you if you want Foveon without trading in the whole kit. They have the same Foveon sensor as the SD15

They have the DP1(s) with a 28mm equivalent f4 and the DP2(s) with a 40mm equivalent f2.8.

FWIW, I agree with cptrios. It's hard to recommend it as an only camera and most can swing 2 different SLR kits. Too bad Sigma didn't do an interchangeable mount lens setup like Tamron Adaptall back in the day. That would be pretty cool to have AF lenses that you can swap mounts on. I think more might be willing to try Sigma if they weren't afraid to invest in Sigma mount lenses.

Thanks guys. I'm not contemplating buying a Sigma camera at all, just wanted to throw that out there to the more knowledgeable members for their thoughts. I'm perfectly satisfied with my 40D and the results I get. After reading the above, doesn't sound like such a good buy after all.

James Emory wrote in post #12494595
Any one out there using a Sigma SD15?

I have an SD15 and let's say I won't be giving up my 5Dii or T2i anytime soon.

However, with that said, I have no plans of giving up the SD15 just yet. I have several Pentax M42 lens that mount the camera by an adapter (35mm f/2 Super Takumar, 50mm f/1.4 ST, 100mm f/4 macro SMC Takumar and 135mm f/3.5 ST), along with Sigma's 17-50 f/2.8 HSM OS, which is an outstanding lens in its own right. I've not taken the time to do side-by-side comparisons because without using the same lens it's impossible to make any claims. That should change next week as I have an M42-EOS adapter on the way right now and will put all three cameras to the test with the same lenses.

My biggest complaints about the SD15 are (1) poor software that is god-awful slow at raw processing (however, this may be a function of the raw image itself, which is quite dramatically different than bayers and may be more computationally-intense), (2) unpleasant noise starting at ISO 800, (3) a battery that seems to need recharging quite frequently, (4) a slow processor in the camera (it takes about 3 seconds to write a raw to the SD card and if you take 10 consecutive shots it'll be about 45 seconds before they're written to the card) and (5) a poor LCD. I use Aperture for my Canon files, but Aperture does not support Sigma's raw image files. So I typically make adjustments in Sigma Photo Pro, then export as a 16-bit TIFF for import into Aperture where things are dramatically faster.

At ISO 100 and 200 it really produces nice images and the prints seem to be better than what I can get from my Canons; although that is really a subjective statement. I've heard others make such statements about the Foveon, so it may be real - or we could just be talking out of my @$$es. Tough to quantitate that. It also seems to do better B&W images than my Canons and you can do real IR with it because its bandpass filter is easily removed. The camera's layout is much simpler than either of my cameras, which is attractive to some. The feature I like best about it, compared to my Canons, is that MLU is on a dial and I absolutely love that feature. It's such a pain on Canon's cameras to use MLU.

Some people claim it has a "3D effect" but I sure haven't seen it. Not like my 35mm f/2 Zeiss ZE on my 5Dii, anyway. The lack of an anti-aliasing filter may be beneficial as well, but again, I've not done comparisons.

It is a specialty camera, that's for sure. It's not suitable for sports or other fast-moving subjects or if you need high frame-rates or video, but is very nice for landscapes, candids, studio work, etc. Is it worth it over a T3i? Probably not for most people.

Here's a shot with the 50mm f/1.4 Super Takumar, one of the finest 50mm lenses ever made, IMO.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

James Emory wrote in post #12495485
Thanks guys. I'm not contemplating buying a Sigma camera at all, just wanted to throw that out there to the more knowledgeable members for their thoughts. I'm perfectly satisfied with my 40D and the results I get. After reading the above, doesn't sound like such a good buy after all.

Other than the MFA on your 40D, I think I'd prefer the SD15. But then again, your high-quality lenses are much fewer compared to Canon's lineup.

A couple more from the SD15 using the 100mm f/4 macro SMC Takumar.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

Tony-S wrote in post #12495521
Other than the MFA on your 40D, I think I'd prefer the SD15. But then again, your high-quality lenses are much fewer compared to Canon's lineup.

The 40D doesn't have micro focusing adjustment, just the 50D in that series.

i like the foveon sensor and even owned the dp1 (god awful camera but made GREAT pics). i actually wouldnt mind trying out a sd15 with some ex lenses.

Tony-S wrote in post #12499826
A couple more from the SD15 using the 100mm f/4 macro SMC Takumar.

Gorgeous pics, but im not really certain a 7D cant do it....No offense intended

None taken. The SD15 is better than my T2i, but not my 5Dii. I'm sure the 7D is as good or better.

Anyways, someones done a 7D vs SD1 comparison...Cant say I'm terribly impressed......the SD1 is, at best, equal to the 7D from what I've seen at low ISO and above ISO1600 it destroys it...And thats really disappointing considering the 16mp Sony sensor used in the A55, K-5 and D5100/D7000 is superior to the 7D's 18mp in Dynamic Range and noise performance....

The problem with the Foveon technology is that while it theoretically is superior to a bayer-pattern sensor, the bayer pattern sensors have been developed for a longer period of time and are used in substantially more devices, meaning theres more incentive to simply develop them, it seems that anytime Foveon advances, any theoretical advantage they have is surpassed because Sony, Canon or another CMOS sensor developer comes out with a new Bayer pattern sensor that not only will out resolve it in grayscale resolution but match it in color resolution, I really doubt that Sigma/Foveon can pour as much R&D into sensors as Canon or Sony can and do...Nor will they ever sell as many sensors....which means far less money to pump into R&D....The only way Sigma could ever conceivably get ahead is to partner with a bigger company to develop the technology....

Right now we know Sony is developing a 24mp APS-C sensor for their A77, Nikon will likely acquire this sensor for the successor to the D300s, Which will likely launch later this year or early next year, And I believe Canon is probubly working on a better sensor to be placed at the heart of the 7DII, 70D and etc.... These sensors will likely not only out resolve the SD1 in grayscale, but offer enhanced dynamic range and color rendition and obliterate any small advantage the new sensor has

To get markedly better image quality, you either need to move up about 2 sensor generations or go up in sensor size, if you're not that happy with your 40D perhaps you should investigate acquiring a 5D Classic or a 7D for enhanced color and that....