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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 31 May 2011 (Tuesday) 08:01
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7D Sharp or is it me? - 1

 
Roxie2401
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May 31, 2011 08:01 |  #1

I keep thinking my new 7D isn't as sharp as my old 40D with the same lenses. Sent the 7D body and one lens back to Canon (the lens was sharp on the 40D). They said nothing wrong with the AF in the 7D but replaced third group elements in the lens - but the lens was fine on the 40D - go figure.

I'm new to posting photos so these have been resized in DPP to fit the 150kb limit and converted from RAW - no other processing. I never had to "sharpen" on the40D and I don't want to have to on the 7D.

Please ignore the composition, etc. - but I would appreciate comments on sharpness/soft focus. The first image is from the 40D the second from the 7D - same lens.


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May 31, 2011 08:03 |  #2

The 7D uses a strong AA filter. Sharpening is required.

-F


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District_History_Fan
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May 31, 2011 08:05 as a reply to  @ Fernando's post |  #3

What lenses are you using?


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Alex_Venom
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May 31, 2011 08:07 |  #4

7D is 18 Megapixels. 40D is 10.
The 7D way higher resolution will evidence any single little flaw in your lenses, and even the smallest camera shake will result in lower per-pixel sharpness.

Besides, a lens working pretty fine on the 40D can be a little off on the 7D and vice-versa due to factory tolerance and calibration. This is why you should probably try to micro-adjust this specific lens to your 7D body.

The anti-aliasing filter on the 7D is also stronger and you should expect to need a little more sharpening on the 7D files to get the detail popped out. ;)


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May 31, 2011 08:10 |  #5

Tough to see anything from low resolution files. I will say at 300mm you are starting to flirt with too low a SS on a crop camera.


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Roxie2401
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May 31, 2011 08:13 |  #6

Fernando wrote in post #12508525 (external link)
The 7D uses a strong AA filter. Sharpening is required.

-F


Is there any way to avoid having to "post-process" and add sharpening? I thought the 7D would be better "out of the camera?"




  
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Roxie2401
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May 31, 2011 08:14 |  #7

Alex_Venom wrote in post #12508542 (external link)
7D is 18 Megapixels. 40D is 10.
The 7D way higher resolution will evidence any single little flaw in your lenses, and even the smallest camera shake will result in lower per-pixel sharpness.

Besides, a lens working pretty fine on the 40D can be a little off on the 7D and vice-versa due to factory tolerance and calibration. This is why you should probably try to micro-adjust this specific lens to your 7D body.

The anti-aliasing filter on the 7D is also stronger and you should expect to need a little more sharpening on the 7D files to get the detail popped out. ;)


I wondered about the difference between the 10 and 18. It is strange that on my computer screen the 7D shots look "soft" but on a large screen TV at 1080p they look fine.




  
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Roxie2401
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May 31, 2011 08:15 |  #8

Sdiver2489 wrote in post #12508558 (external link)
Tough to see anything from low resolution files. I will say at 300mm you are starting to flirt with too low a SS on a crop camera.

I know - sorry about the poor resolution - is there any way to post on the forum without a web hosting arrangement to get better resolution?




  
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Roxie2401
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May 31, 2011 08:17 |  #9

District_History_Fan wrote in post #12508532 (external link)
What lenses are you using?

Two lenses - the EF-S 17-85 and the EF 70-300.

What bugs me is that both lenses appear sharp on the 40D. Never had an issue and there is no micro-adjust on the 40D.




  
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sth_
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May 31, 2011 08:24 |  #10

Try resizing the 7D image to the 40D's image dimensions and compare again.
The 7D picture shouldn't be worse than the 40D's in that comparison.

As for the pictures you posted: Too small and too heavily compressed for a real comparison.
Could you upload higher-resolution versions somewhere?


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May 31, 2011 08:26 |  #11

Roxie2401 wrote in post #12508572 (external link)
Is there any way to avoid having to "post-process" and add sharpening? I thought the 7D would be better "out of the camera?"

All DSLRs require some sharpening to be applied in PP if you shoot Raw. If you shoot jpeg, sharpening is applied in camera (for many cameras even if you have sharpening set to zero or off).

The sharpening is required to overcome the softness introduced by the anti-aliasing (AA) filter which is used to prevent jaggies and moire. Different cameras have different strength AA filters, so the amount of sharpening you need will also be different.


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Sdiver2489
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May 31, 2011 08:28 |  #12

Roxie2401 wrote in post #12508595 (external link)
Two lenses - the EF-S 17-85 and the EF 70-300.

What bugs me is that both lenses appear sharp on the 40D. Never had an issue and there is no micro-adjust on the 40D.

Keep in mind that the 70-300mm is soft at 300mm. Therefore, a higher resolution sensor isn't going to net necessarily any more detail and therefore looking at it at 1:1 may look "worse". As stated before resizing should look the same.


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Sdiver2489
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May 31, 2011 08:30 |  #13

Oh an OP, crop a portion of the image you had focused on so that the end crop is about 800x600 or so. That way we can see sharpness on a per pixel level


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May 31, 2011 08:38 as a reply to  @ Sdiver2489's post |  #14

If you are zooming in to 100% remember that you are looking much closer to the details on the 7D file so it can look worse when it is actually better. You need to print them out the same size or get them to exactly the same size on the screen to be able to compare directly.

If you want the images sharper straight out of the camera then you can increase the sharpening in the picture style menu

Press the picture style button on the back of the camera, then press the Info button. You are then in the menu which allows you to fine tune the .jpeg processing parameters. Just increase the first setting from its standard 3.


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May 31, 2011 08:48 as a reply to  @ Sdiver2489's post |  #15

As said before the 7D requires sharpening. Here is a picture (not a good one) from the same race after processing. Technically it is a terrible photo but not much I could do from where I was sitting. However, I feel it shows that after some processing the 7D is capable of sharp photos, even with the crappy compression from Photobucket. This was taken with the 24-105. I would have like to have used my 70-200 but I drove one of the Silverados around the track with the military veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq before the race so I had to stick with a lens that would work for that as well.

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