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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 31 May 2011 (Tuesday) 09:31
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Flash Orientation In A Softbox: A Useful Tidbit

 
TMR ­ Design
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May 31, 2011 09:31 |  #1

Using hot shoe flashes in softboxes is becoming more and more popular and we're seeing an explosion of brackets and gizmos for mounting flashes inside softboxes.

Whenever I thought about placing a flash with a rectangular front lens (such as a Nikon or Canon Speedlight, not a flash with a round flash tube like a Sunpak 120J) into a rectangular softbox I made what I thought was a logical assumption by rotating the flash head so the orientation matched that of the softbox. I was pretty confident in that conclusion and thought it made the most sense and would produce the most even light.

As it turns out, that was a bad and incorrect assumption.

I spent some time doing a series of tests with what I consider to be average and commonly sized softboxes used with hot shoe flashes. The softboxes tested were a Photoflex 24" x 32" and 36" x 48" LiteDome Q39. Both had white interiors with both layers of diffusion installed. The flash is entering the back of the softbox and firing forward with the flash zoom setting on 24mm. I tested with a Nikon SB-900, which is roughly the equivalent of a Canon 580EX II in size and power.

Using a Sekonic L-758DR at 4 feet from the front face of the softbox, I took readings at the center, the long edge and short edge (about 2 inches from the actual edge) with both orientations. I no longer do tests or evaluate readings taken on the front face of the modifier. I really don't care what's happening there. My concern is what happens at real world working distances from the lightbox. I also didn't take corner readings. I don't care what happens in the corners.

Bottom line....

Center reading is as expected, and the same for both orientations.
Long edge reading is the same as the center for both orientations.
Short edge reading was down 1/10 stop (- .1EV).


These results were encouraging and I'm no longer worrying about orientation of the flash within a rectangular softbox.

I hope others find this snippet of info helpful.


Robert
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scroller52
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May 31, 2011 12:11 |  #2

thanks rob!


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TMR ­ Design
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May 31, 2011 12:36 as a reply to  @ scroller52's post |  #3

My pleasure. It's just something I wanted to pass on just in case others were driving themselves crazy worrying about orientation.... umm, flash orientation, that is.. lol


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kn_guy87
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May 31, 2011 13:04 |  #4

What are you saying? so it is incorrect to place the long edge of the flash to match the long edge of the softbox???




  
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May 31, 2011 13:06 as a reply to  @ kn_guy87's post |  #5

What am I saying?

With all due respect, did you actually read the full post?


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dmward
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May 31, 2011 13:59 |  #6

Rob,
After reading your report I took a look at the lens on a 580EXII. It appears, based on the fresnel pattern that Canon is working to get the light cone to be more or less found. At least a large oval.

And, at 24mm setting the light emitting from from the speedlite should be bouncing around in the softbox. Your finding seem to confirm that. I know its less precise than your method but I did some shots of the front diffusion panel at different exposures to see what the pattern looked like and it appeared to be about what you found with a light meter.

One question, you said measurement was at 4 feet; given the size of the boxes if the meter was at the edge and 4 feet out, it seems like you are measuring the center of the light "cone" since it would be larger than the size of the box that far away. Did you also measure a bit farther out from the center of the light cone to see what the impact might be?


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May 31, 2011 14:08 |  #7

dmward wrote in post #12510411 (external link)
Rob,
After reading your report I took a look at the lens on a 580EXII. It appears, based on the fresnel pattern that Canon is working to get the light cone to be more or less found. At least a large oval.

And, at 24mm setting the light emitting from from the speedlite should be bouncing around in the softbox. Your finding seem to confirm that. I know its less precise than your method but I did some shots of the front diffusion panel at different exposures to see what the pattern looked like and it appeared to be about what you found with a light meter.

One question, you said measurement was at 4 feet; given the size of the boxes if the meter was at the edge and 4 feet out, it seems like you are measuring the center of the light "cone" since it would be larger than the size of the box that far away. Did you also measure a bit farther out from the center of the light cone to see what the impact might be?

Hey David,

I thought about doing more in-depth testing but I felt that knowing what I did was good enough, meaning that if the box is fairly uniform at 4 feet and directly in front of it, then falloff and the effect of feathering the light source should be no different from any other strobe or modifier combination.

In this particular test I just wanted to know for sure whether the orientation of the flash had any significant impact on the light. In all honestly, I would have been perfectly happy if there was another tenth stop of falloff in all directions from center to edge.

I was also very pleased to see that performance was excellent inside of a 36" x 48" softbox.


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dmward
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May 31, 2011 16:28 |  #8

Rob,
I agree. That's a reasonable expectation.


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May 31, 2011 16:53 |  #9

TMR Design wrote in post #12510089 (external link)
What am I saying?

With all due respect, did you actually read the full post?

sorry I don't mean to come off disrespect...
You said: "rotating the flash head so the orientation matched that of the softbox"
As it turns out, that was a bad and incorrect assumption.

So other words it is incorrect to place the long edge of the flash to match the long edge of the softbox




  
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May 31, 2011 16:58 |  #10

kn_guy87 wrote in post #12511331 (external link)
sorry I don't mean to come off disrespect...
You said: "rotating the flash head so the orientation matched that of the softbox"
As it turns out, that was a bad and incorrect assumption.

So other words it is incorrect to place the long edge of the flash to match the long edge of the softbox

Hang on. I think you've misunderstood me.

What I'm saying is that I originally thought that the flash head orientation should match the orientation of the softbox. After conducting these tests I determined that there's no need to rotate the flash head orientation to match the softbox and you can just leave the flash positioned horizontally, even in a softbox as large as 36" x 48".


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May 31, 2011 17:10 |  #11

I got it now. Too much wine last night :-)
Thanks, rob.

TMR Design wrote in post #12511359 (external link)
Hang on. I think you've misunderstood me.

What I'm saying is that I originally thought that the flash head orientation should match the orientation of the softbox. After conducting these tests I determined that there's no need to rotate the flash head orientation to match the softbox and you can just leave the flash positioned horizontally, even in a softbox as large as 36" x 48".




  
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m.shalaby
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May 31, 2011 18:32 |  #12

good info. i shoot with octa's so i never worried about this, but I could see how someone would think to keep the flash head (rectangle) in line with the box (rectangle).

saves them trouble now :)




  
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tetrode
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May 31, 2011 19:47 as a reply to  @ m.shalaby's post |  #13

After we discussed this a week or so back, Rob, I performed a similar test though only with a 24" x 32" Photoflex softbox. I used a bracket-mounted SB800. Switching head orientation (landscape to portrait) is particularly easy with the SB800:

IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2672/5752700739_4ca261fb6b_o.jpg

I took readings at about 4' from the front baffle with the meter positioned dead center and at the outer edge of the SB (keeping distance constant, of course). My results were almost identical to yours. Center readings were the same (as expected) regardless of head orientation. At the edges, readings varied by about .1 stop. In other words, not worth worrying about. At least not with a SB that has a 3:4 aspect ratio (as that's all I tested). I would imagine you'd start seeing meaningful differences with strips such as a 9" x 36" (which is often used with a shoe mount flash) and also possibly with SBs that have no internal baffle and those that have unusually shallow profiles.

Dave F.



  
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May 31, 2011 20:34 as a reply to  @ tetrode's post |  #14

For me, it wasn't so much a question of whether I could rotate and align the flash head correctly in the vertical position.

It's more about having a bracket that I can configure, lock down, and leave alone, regardless of the modifier or its shape.


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May 31, 2011 20:51 |  #15

Dave,
The other advantage, looking at your bracket and the cutout for the speedlite, is this demonstrates that one could have a speedlite bracket that fit more tightly around the head to minimize light spill.


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Flash Orientation In A Softbox: A Useful Tidbit
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