Be careful taking pictures of trains in the US, It may be illegal

http://www.youtube.com …r76atjUA&featur​e=youtu.be

This is getting ridiculous. It completely infuriates me at the general ignorance of people in positions of authority. We should have a "take pictures of transportation day" and get everyone out to the trains, plains, buses, subways, bridges, tunnels, border crossings, you name it - just to take pictures. Give these security goons and ignorant officers a pain in the butt day, so maybe they'll take the time to think before picking on photographers rights.

Bit more to that story in this thread
https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=12522067#po​st12522067

Justaddwata wrote in post #12522185
Bit more to that story in this thread
https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=12522067#po​st12522067

thanks for finding this and posting it.

Illegal or not, why didn't he just give the cop his ID?


Whether he plays little Mr I know my rights and the rest, at the end of the day the cops won.

My view is this, be polite, if they want your ID give it to them? By not complying with the ID check you just add more suspicion to the event.

Now If he gave the ID the cops would have checked him, seen he was a innocent enthusiest and prob warned him and left him alone.

Before I took photos at Sydney Airport I contacted a customs person at the airport in person and offered my details and asked kind permission to take photos of planes as I am an amateur photographer. The customs guy smiled and said' relax, we dont need your name, go and take some snaps and have a nice flight home'

It could have gone wrong and if I done it without checking permission, have them question me and possibly get into trouble and miss flight.


The way I see it is give your name if you have to. If you ain't got nothing to hide then you shouldnt be worried.


My 2 CENTS

samueli wrote in post #12521806
This is getting ridiculous. It completely infuriates me at the general ignorance of people in positions of authority. We should have a "take pictures of transportation day" and get everyone out to the trains, plains, buses, subways, bridges, tunnels, border crossings, you name it - just to take pictures. Give these security goons and ignorant officers a pain in the butt day, so maybe they'll take the time to think before picking on photographers rights.

Samueli,


Your missing the point about why the cops questioned him.

Trains, buses airports, they all fall under the same category. Public transport.

The police have every right to question anyone who is taking photos of these public things. I don't care what rights here and rights there attitude people have but I agree with the cop.

I am thinking about taking some nice photos at the train station soon.

Is it illegal?....prob not.

Am I going to ask the station master for permission......You betcha I am.

By asking, not only have I covered my rear end if cops do turn up, but have also reinforced a better relationship with the people there who one day may call me when a new super special train arrives that they think I would be interested in photographing.

I suppose we are more relaxed in Australia and its easier. But if I lived in the USA, I would still ask permission.

I know some of the Americans will hate me typing this but the truth is that you guys/gals have to relax with your, rights to do this and right to do that. If I was the cop and asked you to surrender your ID for checking and you gave me the rights talk back then I would prob cuff and take you in for being pain in the rear end and not complying.

Smile and be polite.....and you will be better off.


I know because a close friend of mine is a Policeman and I just telephoned him for his views and he agrees with me.

snapshot2011 wrote in post #12528178
Illegal or not, why didn't he just give the cop his ID?

Whether he plays little Mr I know my rights and the rest, at the end of the day the cops won.

My view is this, be polite, if they want your ID give it to them? By not complying with the ID check you just add more suspicion to the event.

Now If he gave the ID the cops would have checked him, seen he was a innocent enthusiest and prob warned him and left him alone.

Before I took photos at Sydney Airport I contacted a customs person at the airport in person and offered my details and asked kind permission to take photos of planes as I am an amateur photographer. The customs guy smiled and said' relax, we dont need your name, go and take some snaps and have a nice flight home'

It could have gone wrong and if I done it without checking permission, have them question me and possibly get into trouble and miss flight.

The way I see it is give your name if you have to. If you ain't got nothing to hide then you shouldnt be worried.

...

Your missing the point about why the cops questioned him.

Trains, buses airports, they all fall under the same category. Public transport.

The police have every right to question anyone who is taking photos of these public things. I don't care what rights here and rights there attitude people have but I agree with the cop.

I am thinking about taking some nice photos at the train station soon.

Is it illegal?....prob not.

Am I going to ask the station master for permission......You betcha I am.

By asking, not only have I covered my rear end if cops do turn up, but have also reinforced a better relationship with the people there who one day may call me when a new super special train arrives that they think I would be interested in photographing.

I suppose we are more relaxed in Australia and its easier. But if I lived in the USA, I would still ask permission.

I know some of the Americans will hate me typing this but the truth is that you guys/gals have to relax with your, rights to do this and right to do that. If I was the cop and asked you to surrender your ID for checking and you gave me the rights talk back then I would prob cuff and take you in for being pain in the rear end and not complying.

Smile and be polite.....and you will be better off.

I know because a close friend of mine is a Policeman and I just telephoned him for his views and he agrees with me.

There are so many things wrong with your posts, I don't know where to start, so I'll skip right to the bottom line. The cops "won" the battle; they harrassed the photographer and got him to stop. But they're about to lose the war. They had no right to stop him (under the law, and per MTA policy, clearly stated on their own web site). They had no right to force him to produce ID (he can be asked to voluntarily show his ID). The MTA was already in deep trouble because of prior incidents, they're staring a six-figure lawsuit in the face, and they WILL lose. The MTA director and MTA police chief are crapping bricks and publicly backpedaling at Mach 1. And those cops who "won"? If they ever do something that stupid again, they'll be ex-cops.

If I haven't been clear:

1) You don't have to ask permission to do something that's perfectly legal; and if it's a perfectly ordinary activity, why would you feel the need?

2) Light rail stations don't have "stationmasters"; they're just stops along the street, so there's no one to ask, even if you wanted to.

3) You don't have to show ID unless you're being detained or arrested.

4) If I refused to show you ID and you cuffed me, that six-figure lawsuit just became a seven-figure lawsuit, and at the end of it you'd be unemployed, with no prospects of ever wearing a badge again, unless it was to guard a shopping mall.

5) Your "close policeman friend's" opinion doesn't cut any ice here. Is he in the habit of citing nonexistent laws to stop people from doing things?

6) "We Americans" are f'ing tired of having our rights curtailed for no reason. Excuse us if we stand up and say "No more".

Thanks for the reply.

Ok you make some good points about what your rights are. I understand what your rights are and that you value them.

What I am trying to get across is the fact that rights or no rights, if you are asked to hand over your ID to perform a check or even whatever they do with it then whats the big deal about giving it to them?


Seriously..........Wha​ts the big deal?

Forget the lawsuit excuse.........the cop just asked you for your name and details. Something so plain and standard and yet you telling me that that info is so personal and you don't have the rights to give it to him. Wake up man......he is not asking your code to your safe or your pin number to your credit card or password to your cheque account.............he just wants to know who he is dealing with simple and plain.

This thread could go silly and there is no need for it. I simply made the comment that the guy was being ignorant in not giving the cop his name.


Now if his DSLR was just snatched from his arms by a robber running past I am sure he would have no hesitation in giving his name and details.

If the law states that you must give your ID and failure to do so would result in arrest then tough crappers buddy.......you and your lawsuit mean nothing when fighting a justified written law that is set in concrete.

I can't see why some people are sooooooooo paranoid about giving a cop their ID.

Ok if the guy was a rail employee I wouldnt bother, but the guy was a cop and demands some respect.

One day he could save you from harm....then your tables will turn....or you'll probably suit him for helping you the wrong way.

here you go moose....one of your countrymen has answered it for you


https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1049971


I especially like this one:

VIII. If you are challenged, you do not have to explain why you are taking pictures, nor to you have to disclose your identity (except in some cases when questioned by a law enforcement officer.)


Get your facts right before you suit the cop moose!!!!!!!!!!!!

snapshot2011 wrote in post #12529052
If the law states that you must give your ID and failure to do so would result in arrest then tough crappers buddy.......you and your lawsuit mean nothing when fighting a justified written law that is set in concrete.

The law states just the opposite, i.e. he was NOT required to show his ID. That's what is set in concrete. The director of the MTA has admitted as much in newspaper interviews, and an MTA spokesman has also stated it in interviews I watched on local TV. Their cops screwed the pooch, big time, and the ACLU isn't going to be Mr. Nice Guy this time.

I do have my facts straight. Don't rely on some half-baked message board list of "photographers' rights" to claim otherwise.

ok....well here is how it ends.


You do what you want and I will do what I see fit.

If you don't agree with me on anything then at least try to agree with this,

By complying with an ID request from a law enforcement officer, it is wiser to simply comply with their request to know who you are than to run the risk of creating a high tension situation that could have the potential of having you charged for not being co-operative.

You could spend 1 hour taking photos after the officer excuses you or one hour at the station answering questions like who are you, what are you taking photos of, what are your intentions with these images etc etc.....possible waterboarding!


LOL now I am having fun with ya.


Seriously, to all users on the forum who read this. Like Moose said you all have rights. Stand by them. But like I said don't make the situation something that doesn't need to be overdone.

Peace Moose, cheers everyone (including the friendly cops) on the forum

wink wink nudge nudge

I work for a large railroad in the US. Norfolk Southern, the company I work for doesn't really mind people taking pictures. Just stay off the property while doing it. Usually they won't even bother them in parking lots owned by the company or even being close to the right of way. It's the people that help themselves to yards, and climb around on the equipment that get's others in trouble and ran off. I've even came close a few times to hitting people out on bridges, and on the tracks doing a photo shoot. Shoot all you want using the railroad as a background or whatever.....just don't be on the track doing it.

Point is, stay off the tracks people, it's illegal and dangerous.

WherzRoony wrote in post #12521771
http://www.youtube.com …r76atjUA&featur​e=youtu.be

Wise up, Roony. It's not illegal anywhere in the United States, unless you are trespassing on private railway property. Then the act is illegal but the photos are not.

snapshot2011 wrote in post #12529705
ok....well here is how it ends.

You do what you want and I will do what I see fit.

If you don't agree with me on anything then at least try to agree with this,

By complying with an ID request from a law enforcement officer, it is wiser to simply comply with their request to know who you are than to run the risk of creating a high tension situation that could have the potential of having you charged for not being co-operative.

You could spend 1 hour taking photos after the officer excuses you or one hour at the station answering questions like who are you, what are you taking photos of, what are your intentions with these images etc etc.....possible waterboarding!

LOL now I am having fun with ya.

Seriously, to all users on the forum who read this. Like Moose said you all have rights. Stand by them. But like I said don't make the situation something that doesn't need to be overdone.

Peace Moose, cheers everyone (including the friendly cops) on the forum

wink wink nudge nudge

You could make the same argument for the police demanding to search your home without a warrant. Wiser to comply, than to run the risk of creating a high tension situation...

IMHO, a lot of people are far too willing to give up their rights, and then bend over backwards to justify doing so. Peace.

Good stuff here!

I agree with your thought process on this Snapshot2011, I really do. And if it was a few years ago, I'd be the same way. But these days I'm with mooses10101 #6: "We Americans" are f'ing tired of having our rights curtailed for no reason. Excuse us if we stand up and say "No more".

We'll, maybe not all of we Americans, but I certainly am. And unfortunately, the police and related security are the front lines of freedom where the battle will take place. I think it less painful looking at situations one by one asserting rights and asking questions, forcing the officers to think and do the right thing on an individual basis, instead of letting it fester until it becomes a rage of many. I wish the police men and women well when things finally reach a boiling point; it won't be anything personal.

Getting back to photography, I may want pictures more than I may want to excersize freedoms at any given time, so yes, I might find someone to ask permission from just to be kind and build a momentary personal relationship (things we should all be doing more often). It's not their fault they believe in the terrorism boogie man, and I generally would rather not make people unhappy.

hawkeye60 wrote in post #12529863
You could make the same argument for the police demanding to search your home without a warrant. Wiser to comply, than to run the risk of creating a high tension situation...

IMHO, a lot of people are far too willing to give up their rights, and then bend over backwards to justify doing so. Peace.

My point totally.