Converting & Saving in DPP

René Damkot wrote in post #12540495
What lens is this?
Have you tried micro adjusting? Even if I downsize the 7D shot, it's still less sharp:

Hard to tell what's going on. Might be a bit of motion blur, but it looks more like it's slightly OoF.

Its the Ef 70-300, f14 @ 1/250 - but both my lenses look the same - soft - compared to when they are on the 40D body.

I haven't tried microadjust since I thought the entire image was soft and didn't think micro would correct over-all image quality.

Also, the body has been back to Canon - no problem found, and the lens, also. Of course, they didn't test them together.....lens repair checked the lens and body repair checked the body.

I just keep hearing that 7D's require more sharpening......or, better glass.

Roxie2401 wrote in post #12540546
Its the Ef 70-300, f14 @ 1/250 - but both my lenses look the same - soft - compared to when they are on the 40D body.

I haven't tried microadjust since I thought the entire image was soft and didn't think micro would correct over-all image quality.

You should check the Microadjustment.

Roxie2401 wrote in post #12540546
Also, the body has been back to Canon - no problem found, and the lens, also. Of course, they didn't test them together.....lens repair checked the lens and body repair checked the body.

I just keep hearing that 7D's require more sharpening......or, better glass.

I doesn't matter what Canon finds with your camera or lenses. It could still require a microadjustment. Both the Camera Body and Lenses have an allowable tolerance, and if they fall with in that Canon will determine them to be good. I refer you back to those two links I poster in a previous reply when I first mentioned the AF Microadjustment. Especially the first article that will explain the effects of the allowable tolerances.

Some of us threw together a little "sticky" discussing how one could analyze the sharpness of a camera/lens combo. Check this out, run some of the tests:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=857871

Then, try the Micro Adjust to see if you get better results using MF and, if so, making the adjustment accordingly...

tkerr wrote in post #12539288
Elie, What Interpolation method is DPP using when Resizing? I know you cannot choose like you can in other software, but it must be using some kind.

Canon doesn't say, but I'd guess regular Bicubic.

In LR there is the Info Overlay, that white text that floats over the upper left hand corner of the image display. There are actually two overlays and you can toggle through them with the i key. You can set what info they contain with View/View Options and if you set one of them to "Cropped Dimensions", it will show how many pixels are left after the crop.

Another question: were these taken with a tripod or handheld? Bear in mine that the finer resolution of the 7D will by nature exaggerate the smallest bit of camera shake, not to mention lens/camera softness or misfocus.

Check out this "sticky" with some focus/sharpness tests:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=857871

Also, you might consider another little run of tests: using the above tripod/support setup, try shooting Raw+jpeg with both the 40D and the 7D. If the 7D supports Raw=Med jpeg, take some of those as well. If the camera won't support Raw+Med jpeg, well, shoot some Med jpeg then. Shoot them at the Standard Picture Style but toss in some Landscape Picture Style as well to apply more sharpness to the jpeg/DPP Raw.

The idea is to see how the camera processes the shots and applies sharpness compared to the default you are seeing with DPP -- maybe a difference will show. And, it should be evedent whether the camera applies a bit more to the 7D compared to the 40D if the two Raw versions show this difference in sharpness but the jpegs come out looking pretty close. And if you compare the Med jpegs with the 40D you will get an idea of how Canon down-sizes and how that might affect apparent sharpening.

Like I've said, I don't have a 70D. I have bodies closer to the res of the 40D, so haven't worked with the high res bodies. We learn as we go!

tzalman wrote in post #12540991
In LR there is the Info Overlay, that white text that floats over the upper left hand corner of the image display. There are actually two overlays and you can toggle through them with the i key. You can set what info they contain with View/View Options and if you set one of them to "Cropped Dimensions", it will show how many pixels are left after the crop.

In DPP the crop dimensions in pixels show as you are drawing the crop in whatever aspect ratio, so you can draw a rectangle then nudge it to get to the right size.

tzalman wrote in post #12540991
In LR there is the Info Overlay, that white text that floats over the upper left hand corner of the image display. There are actually two overlays and you can toggle through them with the i key. You can set what info they contain with View/View Options and if you set one of them to "Cropped Dimensions", it will show how many pixels are left after the crop.

Thanks - found that. Too bad there isn't a way to specify the dimensions; I notice that the overlay doesn't change as you resize the crop - only after you release the mouse, do the new dimensions show in the overlay.

Guess that's a plus for DPP.

Tony, Eli, tkerr -

Thanks for sticking with me on this and the great advice.

I will follow the "sticky" and also try the microadjust and let you know what I find.

I have been reluctant to go to the microadjustment since both lenses performed so well with the 40D - images looked great on the monitor, camera LCD and 8 x 12 prints.

To be honest, the 7D images all look soft, hand-held or tripod and I've gotten so frustrated in hearing that the "better body" needs "better lenses." I know its more megapixals and was hoping that when I finally get some prints back from the lab they will be sharp.

I'll let you know what I find.

Any thoughts on microadjustment? Is this back-focus, front-focus - is there a way to tell from looking at the images?

Roxie2401 wrote in post #12541124
Any thoughts on microadjustment? Is this back-focus, front-focus - is there a way to tell from looking at the images?

That's what you will have to determine by checking. They make charts that can be used that you focus on,http://focustestchart.​com/chart.html
Or, in that second link I posted previously you can download a screen moirétest pattern. Follow the instructions in that link and you shouldn't have any troubles.

I don't really agree with that slogan

unless it's followed by the words "to realize its full potential". But it is true of every camera that better glass is .....better. And the converse is true also - less than stellar glass may not do the 7D justice, but what it does do should be no worse than what it did on the 40D if they are compared on a level playing ground.

Humor me - are we really saying that the same complement of lenses, same aperture, same shutter speed, ISO and shooting position on a more dense (18mp) body would all give soft focus results but perform (or at least appear) tack sharp on the 10mp body?

Also, the lenses were all Image Stabilized and I was using a single AF point. On the 7D I did try the "expanded" single focus point, too. Camera both "confirmed" AF and the shutter speeds should have stopped any movement - or so I thought.

Yep - I'm frustrated but I'm not giving up. I'll try all the suggestions and let you know.

(Aside - I'm starting to see things in both DPP and LR that I like - still a little confused about one reply that said to resize first vs after processing - "Final sharpening should be applied after resizing." vs. "All your adjustments should preferably be done to the Raw file first. Once you are satisfied then convert/save to a jpeg.")

Roxie2401 wrote in post #12541227
Humor me - are we really saying that the same complement of lenses, same aperture, same shutter speed, ISO and shooting position on a more dense (18mp) body would all give soft focus results but perform (or at least appear) tack sharp on the 10mp body?

Also, the lenses were all Image Stabilized and I was using a single AF point. On the 7D I did try the "expanded" single focus point, too. Camera both "confirmed" AF and the shutter speeds should have stopped any movement - or so I thought.

What you describe is sounding more and more like a AF Microadjustment issue. A higher pixel density should give you greater detail and sharper images.
You are shooting Raw aren't you.. If you're shooting jpeg the Picture Style will be applied and that can make a difference.

Image Stabilization can be quarky with some lenses. If you have it steady on a monopod it might make things worse than if you had it turned off. If you have the camera on a tripod you want to turn it off. If you're using a really high shutter speed you probably don't need it. How it activates from one shot to the next may also have an effect.

Roxie2401 wrote in post #12541227
Yep - I'm frustrated but I'm not giving up. I'll try all the suggestions and let you know.

(Aside - I'm starting to see things in both DPP and LR that I like - still a little confused about one reply that said to resize first vs after processing.)

Everyone has their own way of post processing. When it comes to final sharpening, if needed, it is best to do it after you have resized to a smaller size as a last step. However most other Post Processing is best if performed at full size, and often when viewing at 100%. This will give you more visual control over how much of the adjustment you apply to the image especially when it comes to Sharpening and Noise Reduction.
There is a nice little portion of this video on LR3 that covers Sharpening pretty well.
http://tv.adobe.com …whats-new-in-lightroom-3/

Additionally, some if not most image editing applications apply some kind of Interpolation method which may sharpen or soften the image. I don't know if or how DPP does it.

That was mine, I guess. I'll try to explain, but briefly 'cause it's getting late here. The tribal elders say nowadays that sharpening should be done in 3 stages. This is the article that started the revolution, way back when.
http://www.creativepro​.com …-on-a-sharpening-workflow
(I sleep with a copy of it on a usb key under my pillow.) In a peanut shell, first comes Capture Sharpening, which undoes the effect of the AA filter and gets the image looking good enough that the photographer stops swearing (or crying). Second is Creative Sharpening which is localized and specific to the needs of the subject and the photographer's vision. Finally, there is Output Sharpening, the final touch. This is primarily needed because a.) resizing can destroy or at least reduce sharpness and b.) different end-uses require different sorts of sharpening.
LR, true to the memory of Bruce Fraser and by employing his partner/protegé Jeff Schewe, has adopted the workflow (although it is somewhat inadequate for stage two). DPP has just one stage of sharpening, In the years when I was using DPP, the RAWs got Sharpening +2 as a sort of Capture Sharpening and then were rendered as tifs for a trip to another editor where they got more sharpening (Creative) and then, if they were resized, even more sharpening. Today LR does it all.

tkerr wrote in post #12541336
What you describe is sounding more and more like a AF Microadjustment issue. A higher pixel density should give you greater detail and sharper images.
You are shooting Raw aren't you.. If you're shooting jpeg the Picture Style will be applied and that can make a difference.

Image Stabilization can be quarky with some lenses. If you have it steady on a monopod it might make things worse than if you had it turned off. If you have the camera on a tripod you want to turn it off. If you're using a really high shutter speed you probably don't need it. How it activates from one shot to the next may also have an effect.

Been reading the microadjustment "methods" - one question - if the lens is adjusted at a specific focal length, does that adjustment hold for its entire range -i.e., 70-300, 17-85, etc. Or, is it more for prime lenses?

I hope the answer is for the entire zoom range.

Oh, my shots were handheld, no tripod or monopod so I left the IS on - and the targets were basically stationary, no panning.

I did try the AI Servo AF but primarily used Single Shot AF.