What If: EF 200mm f/1.4L IS

You've made a lot of qualifications though (as I've kindly highlighted in red) whereas I was responding to your blanket statement

[QUOTE=alt4852;1262485​3]i'd really love to know what in the world you're shooting.

this isn't the greatest example, but it's the only one i had loaded on photobucket. i was running around dc with a friend and i hadn't brought any lighting equipment with me because it was a really spontaneous trip. i don't remember the exact settings, but it was a 5D2 + 35L at f/1.4 around 1/15th at ISO6400 or something like that. the photo was taken around 4:30am. yes, that sky was pitch black.
[QUOTE]

Excuse me if I'm sceptical, but there was no way that sky could have been pitch black. I have photographed indoor events at f/1.4, 1/15, ISO 12,800, and they still look dark as can be.

Sorry - I don't believe you, you must be mistaken.

People photograph star photos at f/1.4, high ISO and slightly longer shutter speeds, and it is still pitch black

When my street recently flooded, I wanted to take a long exposure to capture all the flood water - this was at 1am in the middle of the night. I required:
f/2.8
ISO 6400
30 second exposure!!

alt4852 wrote in post #12624853
my point being, we're at a point where i can take a usable photo in near pitch-darkness. it wouldn't suffice for paid work, but who shoots paid work in the dark without proper lighting? if you used a 200mm f/2L IS, you could get the 1/15th due to the 4-stop IS, and you could increase the ISO to 12800 if you wanted. we're at a place where i can max out settings and take a photo of the baltimore inner harbor at midnight and get a nearly all-white blown out image at f/2.

Since when do professional photographers get to choose the environments they photograph in?

Since when is 1/15th sufficient to freeze a person moving?

Since when is ISO 12800 acceptable for anything larger than web size?

My 5D Mark II ISO 800 still looks similar to my 6 year old 400D (XTi)'s ISO 800 - I don't share your optimism unfortunately

Can you use strobes and modifiers at a night ball game?

Can you set up strobes and modifiers when the action is constantly changing and you have to constantly change your positioning?

Can you set up strobes and modifiers when flash is banned?

Can you set up strobes and modifiers when you are taking candids and photojournalist shots?

It's not about pitch darkness - f/1.4 is useful even during the day.

And yes, I do need to hold steadier - but that's easier said than done. I'm a healthy, 24 year old male, trained in rifle marksmanship principles and breathing techniques. Yet I struggle with the 200 f/2L IS at 1/60 and slower. I cannot consistently get sharp photos at 1/60 or slower. 50% maybe. That's 50% of shots lost. When push comes to shove, I will use the 200L, but my point is, there will always be a market for faster lenses.

Keep in mind, given I am talking about pixel level sharpness, the 5d2 has pixel density equivalent to the 8MP 30D/20D. If those cameras required a 1/(FL X 1.6) rule of thumb for handholding, then so too does the 5D2 as it is the same magnification at 100% view.

Consequently, 1/320 > 1/160 > 1/80 > 1/40 is 4 stops of handholding advantage. It takes luck and time to get 1/15 for a heavy lens like the 200L IS

Maybe I'm weird or have some disease I don't know of, but I'm also a realist. IS helps, but is not perfect, especially with a heavy lens mounted on a relatively light 5D mark II.

Anyone who claims they can consistently handhold this lens at 1/60 or slower must be juiced up on something - if so I want a taste of it.

smorter wrote in post #12625022
Excuse me if I'm sceptical, but there was no way that sky could have been pitch black. I have photographed indoor events at f/1.4, 1/15, ISO 12,800, and they still look dark as can be.

Sorry - I don't believe you, you must be mistaken.

i didn't strip it, so you can feel free to check my exif data if you'd like. i can assure you that it was taken at around 4:30am and it wasn't a full moon or anything. i used a flashlight on her to gauge focus since it was too dark to see. as for that tree, it's a pretty well-known location in DC. it's on the national mall. there might have been some glow off of the washington monument, but even though wouldn't have been enough to light up the whole sky like that.

smorter wrote in post #12625022
Since when do professional photographers get to choose the environments they photograph in?

Since when is 1/15th sufficient to freeze a person moving?

Since when is ISO 12800 acceptable for anything larger than web size?

once again, what in the world are you shooting?

smorter wrote in post #12625022
My 5D Mark II ISO 800 still looks similar to my 6 year old 400D (XTi)'s ISO 800 - I don't share your optimism unfortunately

i used to own a 40D back in the day. i remember overestimating the usability of it's ISO1600 during a wedding. in my most recent event, i used ISO6400 and was able to make a relatively clean print for a client. i can assure you that it's getting better.

smorter wrote in post #12625022
Can you use strobes and modifiers at a night ball game?

Can you set up strobes and modifiers when the action is constantly changing and you have to constantly change your positioning?

Can you set up strobes and modifiers when flash is banned?

Can you set up strobes and modifiers when you are taking candids and photojournalist shots?

no, but i've covered candlelit wedding receptions and been able to slightly overexpose faces that were too close to the flames. granted i'm using shorter focal lengths that allow me to use shutter speeds around 1/15 routinely, it's not like i'm pushing the ISO capabilities of my cameras to their limits either.

i mentioned strobes because i've seen your work (it's very impressive by the way) and i'm under the impression that you primarily do portraiture. if i'm mistaken, i apologize. however, i'm an event photographer. dimly lit bar stages, dark old churches, and intimate reception halls are my trade. i shoot in the very conditions that you describe.. constantly changing, fleeting candid moments.. i have tools for those shots, and i can assure you that a 200mm f/1.4L IS will most likely not be on the wishlist for most people in my line of work.

smorter wrote in post #12625022
And yes, I do need to hold steadier - but that's easier said than done. I'm a healthy, 24 year old male, trained in rifle marksmanship principles and breathing techniques. Yet I struggle with the 200 f/2L IS at 1/60 and slower. I cannot consistently get sharp photos at 1/60 or slower. 50% maybe. That's 50% of shots lost. When push comes to shove, I will use the 200L, but my point is, there will always be a market for faster lenses.

Keep in mind, given I am talking about pixel level sharpness, the 5d2 has pixel density equivalent to the 8MP 30D/20D. If those cameras required a 1/(FL X 1.6) rule of thumb for handholding, then so too does the 5D2 as it is the same magnification at 100% view.

Consequently, 1/320 > 1/160 > 1/80 > 1/40 is 4 stops of handholding advantage. It takes luck and time to get 1/15 for a heavy lens like the 200L IS

Maybe I'm weird or have some disease I don't know of, but I'm also a realist. IS helps, but is not perfect, especially with a heavy lens mounted on a relatively light 5D mark II.

Anyone who claims they can consistently handhold this lens at 1/60 or slower must be juiced up on something - if so I want a taste of it.

admittedly, i've never used the 200mm f/2L IS long enough to test it at 1/15th, but i do know people who claim that it is well within the capabilities of the lens. allen (airfrogusmc) is a well-known member of this forum who uses the 200f2, and i'm pretty sure he's stated on multiple occasions that he is able to use the 1/15-1/30th shutter speed range comfortably during his corporate event coverage work. to push the limits, the reviewer from the-digital-picture (http://www.the-digital-picture.com …L-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx) mentioned that he was able to hand-hold 1/5th of a second. granted it was on a static subject and he had time to steady himself, i think it's fair to conclude that 1/15th and 1/30th are not inhuman.

PS: allen is an old geezer compared to us. if he can do it, i'm confident you're capable as well.
(please don't tell him i said that)

dolina wrote in post #12621601
Not to bite your head off but are you willing to carry 2-4x the current weight of these focal lengths?

As you increase the aperture you also increase the weight.

Check out the weight difference between a 400/5.6 vs 400/4, 300/4 vs 300/2.8, 70-200/4 vs a 70-200/2.8 or 24-105/4 and the 24-70/2.8.

The weight reduction of the 200/2.0 vs the 200/1.8 and the 400mm IS II vs 400mm IS are a main selling point for the updates.

Ohh you are not biting my head off. I said what I said exactly for a response

I suppose my main point was that, even with increasing sensor sensitivites, we should still keep expecting faster lenses to be made.

Now, sure a 24-70 F2 would be heavy. but with the new diet plan super tele's, an F2 version, shouldnt be that much heaiver. I think the F2.4 is still in the cards.