Recording multiple mics on multiple tracks, whats the best way?

So let's say Im interested in doing the videography for a speech or wedding or anything where there is a single or close proximity grouped sound source and a crowd and Id like to record the speaker(s) and the crowds reaction for cutting and adding in later but would like to keep them on two separate tracks not fed into the recorder and recorded together on the same track.

How could this be done?

I was thinking of using a wireless lav mic like the Sennheiser EW-112P G3 system and an omni-directional mic or possibly the Sony PCM-D50 internal mics for the crowd. But how can I get the two sources (speaker and crowd) recorded to separate tracks? I currently have the Sony PCM-D50 and have been considering upgrading to the Marantz PMD661 but that is just a 2-channel recorder, it will not let me record the two channels coming in onto separate, isolated tracks as far as I understand it.

So what do I need to do? Have two recorders? Say keep the Sony PCM-D50 and set it up on a tripod or something to record the crowd and get a second recorder (like maybe a Sony PCM-M10) to record from the wireless lav system? Or should I buy an expensive digital mixing recorder that will allow me to record individual channels into separate tracks?

Very new to all of this and any help would be appreciated! Thanks all

I'd have a separate sound recording setup, like a pc with a firewire device capable of several tracks, pro tools or even fruity loops. You can still record with an on camera mic, but then you can run a left, right and above center on the crowd, and the main sound source with a left, right (and center if you wanted (same goes for the crowd))- each mic on a single track.

But I'm not a videographer and this would cost a ton of money if you didn't already have some equipment, so it's probably a bad idea. But if sound is really important, this would give you fine control.

I don't know about the sony, but I use a Zoom H4n, with either one or two lavs transmitting to the zoom via senn ew g3's. the Zoom's internal mic's get the room mix. For like a wedding - one omni lav on the groom will catch everything from the bride and groom - as well as the minister if he/she stays close to them. If its more like an interview, or only one person talking, a cardioid pattern lav sounds a lot better. But then just switch the Zoom over to 4-channel, and it records two separate files - one with the stereo track from the internal mics, and another with the two mic lines

i'm with samueli on this one. You might be able to rent an 8-track recorder like a Sound Devices 788 if you have a pro shop around you. TBH though it might be cheaper and much easier to find a sound guy in your area and hire him for the day (craigslist ad 2 weeks beforehand = good). Otherwise, if all you have is a 2-track, then you need multiple recorders.

I see.

Well, while Id love to just hire the work out to someone else, or buy a million mics to cover it all, sadly I am not going to be getting paid for any of this work as I have never done any of it in the first place. So Im just looking to acquire the best gear I can afford to give it a go and then if I can extract good results from that Ill have some examples to show potential paying clients. Gotta start somewhere.

That being said, it sounds like Im just going to go the route of buying a second recorder like the Sony PCM-D10 and use it with the wireless lav while the Sony PCM-D50 covers the ambient. I had a feeling in the beginning that was going to be the best route for me given the funding and already owned gear.

If you buy a second recording device and have stereo mics for both, your all set with 4 channels. Doesn't seem like you need wireless. Will this recording even benefit from a stereo mix? I've used left/right lav mics separated a good distance to record live bands, with excellent results. But two distinct sound sound sources would need 4 channels for sure in my opinion.

I'm sure it will turn out great with whatever you decide.

Hmmm, thats a good point. If I can leave one of the recorders up where the speaker is, or even perhaps attach it to them with a wired lav that would be cheaper than something like the Sennhesiers and serve the same purpose. Good thinking.

So you want to record the same source with 2 mics, being recorded into 2 mono tracks simultaneously? Remember 2 mic's into a stereo recorder won't give you 2 mono tracks, which is what I assume you're after.

Okay, well you'll need to record the audio separately. Don't bother with 2 recorders, syncing will be a total pain.

I would have a laptop set up and an interface that supports multi-track recording personally (I'm a studio recording person so don't know much about live recorders).
This Lexicon interface would support 2 XLR mic's plus or 4 un/balanced TRS sources simultaneously as well as MIDI. So it's quite versatile.

Connect that with Cubase LE (which can do 2-track simultaneous, full Cubase will do many) as 2/4 track in/out and you have a high quality live-recording setup that you can playback/edit and monitor on the fly. There may be simpler ways to do it, but I'd personally like to have the quality, versatility and control of a full NLE system rather than relying on a hardisk recorder.

benesotor wrote in post #12563113
So you want to record the same source with 2 mics, being recorded into 2 mono tracks simultaneously? Remember 2 mic's into a stereo recorder won't give you 2 mono tracks, which is what I assume you're after.

Okay, well you'll need to record the audio separately. Don't bother with 2 recorders, syncing will be a total pain.

I would have a laptop set up and an interface that supports multi-track recording personally (I'm a studio recording person so don't know much about live recorders).
This Lexicon interface would support 2 XLR mic's plus or 4 un/balanced TRS sources simultaneously as well as MIDI. So it's quite versatile.

Connect that with Cubase LE (which can do 2-track simultaneous, full Cubase will do many) as 2/4 track in/out and you have a high quality live-recording setup that you can playback/edit and monitor on the fly. There may be simpler ways to do it, but I'd personally like to have the quality, versatility and control of a full NLE system rather than relying on a hardisk recorder.

I'm in total agreement with you here, but Syncing crowd response against a speech or panel won't nearly be as evil as trying to sync parts of a linear performance. I'm betting he'll do fine with the direction he's leaning. Thinking about it more, I would hate to be semi-green with recording in general, then throw in the complexities of cubase, sound driver issues, syncing and latency issues, etc. lol.

benesotor wrote in post #12563113
So you want to record the same source with 2 mics, being recorded into 2 mono tracks simultaneously? Remember 2 mic's into a stereo recorder won't give you 2 mono tracks, which is what I assume you're after.

they might record to a stereo .wav file or whatever, but the L and R tracks are independent. So you can always split the tracks using Audacity or whatever.

Chippy569 wrote in post #12563933
they might record to a stereo .wav file or whatever, but the L and R tracks are independent. So you can always split the tracks using Audacity or whatever.

Hmmm.... You are very correct about that. I guess I could use the stereo input on the Song PCM-D50 with a 3.5mm stereo to mono splitter and then could plug in two mono mics instead of using the Sony PCM-D50's internal mics for ambient recording. I wouldnt have independent gain control though... But lets say I used a wireless lav on the speaker(s) and fed that signal into one mono channel of the input, I would need an omnidirectional mic to record the crowd fed into the other mono input. What a good omnidirectional mic? I have a Rode NTG-2 but that pick up pattern probably would be good for recording the ambient noises of a crowd right? Maybe something like this: LINK Anyone recommend anything better?

ben_r_ wrote in post #12564104
Hmmm.... You are very correct about that. I guess I could use the stereo input on the Song PCM-D50 with a 3.5mm stereo to mono splitter and then could plug in two mono mics instead of using the Sony PCM-D50's internal mics for ambient recording. I wouldnt have independent gain control though... But lets say I used a wireless lav on the speaker(s) and fed that signal into one mono channel of the input, I would need an omnidirectional mic to record the crowd fed into the other mono input. What a good omnidirectional mic? I have a Rode NTG-2 but that pick up pattern probably would be good for recording the ambient noises of a crowd right? Maybe something like this: LINK Anyone recommend anything better?

Are you planning on mic'ing PA speakers? I don't really think that would work... or do you mean amplifier speakers? Getting a line-in feed from the mixing-console would give far superior results.

Chippy569 wrote in post #12563933
they might record to a stereo .wav file or whatever, but the L and R tracks are independent. So you can always split the tracks using Audacity or whatever.

He coouuuld, but I'd hazard a guess that with two different types of mics (maybe one condenser one not) then they would need to be recorded at different gain levels, which would be hard to manage in one input channel.

The Rode NTG-2 seems to have tight pickup pattern, partially for noise cancellation. How big is the crowd and the facility? Ambient noise is just that. If your just getting by, maybe it will pickup enough including all the bouncing around. Maybe you can hang it high and shotgun it into the middle of the crowd on a slight angle. You could get a wide pattern condensor, but now we're talking xlr connection and possible 360 pickup. If the speaker will be amplified, now you'll need to consider bleed and how precisely you want to isolate.

Can you test the Rode with headphones on? Maybe rotate it in front of your tv or stereo and find the real time angle it drops off and starts calling it noise?

benesotor wrote in post #12564225
Are you planning on mic'ing PA speakers? I don't really think that would work... or do you mean amplifier speakers? Getting a line-in feed from the mixing-console would give far superior results.
No this would be for micing a single speaker or possibly a close proximity group (like say a wedding, bride, groom and priest) in the case where there is no PA system, or not one that I have access to, or one that sounds worse than if I just mic them with my gear.


He coouuuld, but I'd hazard a guess that with two different types of mics (maybe one condenser one not) then they would need to be recorded at different gain levels, which would be hard to manage in one input channel.

And yea, thats kinda what I was thinking and what was still making me lean more towards dual recorders.

samueli wrote in post #12564229
The Rode NTG-2 seems to have tight pickup pattern, partially for noise cancellation. How big is the crowd and the facility? Ambient noise is just that. If your just getting by, maybe it will pickup enough including all the bouncing around. Maybe you can hang it high and shotgun it into the middle of the crowd on a slight angle. You could get a wide pattern condensor, but now we're talking xlr connection and possible 360 pickup. If the speaker will be amplified, now you'll need to consider bleed and how precisely you want to isolate.

Can you test the Rode with headphones on? Maybe rotate it in front of your tv or stereo and find the real time angle it drops off and starts calling it noise?

Hmmm... Well, I was considering upgrading the Sony PCM-D50 to the Marantz PMD661 to gain those XLR inputs and Phantom power, however I was hoping to avoid that if I could and stay with self powered mics as even with the Marantz PMD661 I would still need a separate recorder for the ambient as the Marantz still isnt going to give me mulit track recording, just multi channel.

Ill play with the Rode NTG-2 more and see what kind of results I get, but its looking to me like that particular mic isnt going to give me what Im looking for.

Im also kinda thinking perhaps I should leave the ambient alone and just concentrate on micing the people speaking. Sounds like a bit too much work for some background noise that probably wont even be used that much.

http://www.proaudiosta​r.com …_7c2662_a_7cZOO​_d_R16_d_B


A cheap little digital recorder like this could be rented.

It records 8 tracks at once on a SD card.