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Thread started 24 Jun 2011 (Friday) 13:02
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Urgent: Can't play new Ixus300 MOV files

 
ITemplate
Hatchling
7 posts
Joined Jun 2011
     
Jun 24, 2011 13:02 |  #1

Hi,

Just got this new camera and to my horror I discover that it records in MOV format. Can't that be changed? I mean, I can't even play it on my computer in Itunes without stuttering and such - mega fail. Why was the MOV choice a good choice?

Alright I need to decide if I want to keep this camera. I have a PS3 that I use for playing video from my WHS box. I just copied the AVI's from my old Ixus - no problems. But my PS3 will not show MOV files (either). So what to do? Any really good converters that can give me a MPG? Or some good plugins for WHS/Windows that will allow Windows media server to show me a MOV?

Thanks...

PS: Sorry if this has been asked before, but (and now it all becomes very negative :) ) I'm color blind and I cannot see the crappy captchas on the search page :(. Please implement captchas for the color blind too!! I got my kid to read the captcha just to register :)

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Werner




  
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exwintech
Gone, but not forgotten . . .
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Jun 24, 2011 16:45 |  #2

ITemplate - MOV isn't a format, it's a 'container'. That is - your Video is actually in H264, which is a subset of the MPEG4 standard. Also called "MPEG4-AVC" - Advanced Video Codec.

Your new camera does HD-Std - 1280 x 720 - in H264, and that - the video and audio - is packaged in Apple's proprietary MOV container.

If you're using Windows, you can download the free VLC player, Windows version. I'm a Linuxer, but friends with XP-SP3 play their camera H264/MOV clips in VLC.

You probably already do, but if using Windows, check that the download is 'clean' with your AV program before running the executable.

You can convert your camera's H264/MOV clips to std compliant MPEG4 or Xvid4 with the free Avidemux version for Windows. Use the 2-Pass mode to ensure that quality is retained and the audio stays in synch.

You can also convert your clips to MPEG2 to make standard DVDs, with Avidemux. It will create Filename.mpeg(2) files - you can use the free Windows version of DVD-Styler to join the clips, add a title page, and render to a writable DVD fileset or ISO.

If that's not explanatory - post back...

Regards, Dave.




  
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tkbslc
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Jun 24, 2011 16:50 |  #3

If you install the software that comes with the camera it puts a Codec for the movie format on your computer so you can play it back.

Also, you can transcode to other formats with a program like Winff to something the PS3 will play.


Taylor
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ITemplate
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Hatchling
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Jun 25, 2011 04:07 |  #4

Thanks for your answers. I gotta apologise for my initial rant over the MOV format, clearly made out of ignorance. I had a long bad day yesterday...And actually, I always wanted to take the time to understand video formats in general - now is the time.

I will investigate your answers and try out the software, thanks.

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ITemplate
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Jun 25, 2011 08:21 |  #5

Arh I might need some help with this. I will need command line support from my future converter. I have d/l ffmpeg but whatever I try, I cannot get high quality output. I have tried almost every frontend for ffmpeg. I have also tried avidemux but I can't get it to save mp4 and all avi's created require some codec :(

Aren't there any commercial solutions that can do better? I don't really care about the cost I just want high quality mpeg4 and/or avi as output.

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Werner




  
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tkbslc
Cream of the Crop
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Jun 25, 2011 11:02 |  #6

like I said above, download winff from winff.org


Taylor
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ITemplate
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Hatchling
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Jun 25, 2011 12:46 |  #7

tkbslc wrote in post #12655466 (external link)
like I said above, download winff from winff.org

Yes, WinFF with preset "MPEG-4 H.264 video (super high quality)" is what I want, excellent, thanks.

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Werner




  
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exwintech
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Jun 25, 2011 14:06 as a reply to  @ ITemplate's post |  #8

ITemplate - You might note that compliant MPEG4 uses the *.avi extension.

H264 - when saved as itself without the MOV container, can use either *.avi or *.mp4.

Xvid4, which is also an MPEG4 subset, uses the *.avi extension.

I've used Avidemux for conversions for many years, and in more recent times to convert H264/MOV HD in 1920 x 1080 and 1280 x 720, and std video at 640 x 480 - from both Canon and Fuji cameras, without problems.

I convert to compliant MPEG4 in 2-Pass mode, for clips to send to Windows-using friends - most use VLC to view those. For Editing and use in KdenLive (similar functions to Vegas-Pro friends have, but OpenSource) - I convert the H264/MOV from all cameras, and video in other formats, to Xvid4, for consistency within the Editor.

A proper install of Windows-version Avidemux in Windows XP or Win2k will have all the codecs contained within the install. I've never used Vista or Win-7 - so don't know if they "DRM" OpenSource programs, or require Codec kits to be installed.

Note that Avidemux won't convert anything, incuding H264/MOV - to MPEG4 - if you set the "Format" box in the left panel of the dialog to "MP4" - set it to "AVI".

If you do need the *.mp4 extension for MPEG4 - use the iPod or PSP converter mode - on the bar, Auto > Apple > Select 'Pod/Phone' - or Auto > Sony Playstation Portable... In either option you will get a selection box for Resolution and Aspect Ratio.

Avidemux will automatically select "MP4" or "MP4 (PSP)" - for those.

Regards, Dave.




  
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ITemplate
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Jun 26, 2011 05:02 |  #9

Dave,

Thanks for your answer - which got me reinstalling Avidemux and retrying the options. I'm having some more success now. I don't mind that the extension is AVI. Choosing AVI under "Format" makes all the difference. I just got some questions to your settings in Avidemux:

1. When you convert to compliant MPEG4 in 2-pass mode:
What do you choose in the first drop-down under "Video"?
What 2-pass do you choose: "Video size" or "Average bitrate"? (And what bitrate do you choose)

2. When you convert to Xvid4:
What do you choose in the first drop-down under "Video"?
For Xvid, I only have the "MPEG-4 ASP (Xvid)" it seems.

3. What audio do you choose? Is MP3 alright? Or should I get an AC3 codec? I'm thinking for future use where I want to edit my movies...

Thanks :)

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Werner




  
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exwintech
Gone, but not forgotten . . .
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Jun 26, 2011 19:00 as a reply to  @ ITemplate's post |  #10

Werner - Don't use the options in 'Video' drop-menu.

In the left panel, you will have "MPEG-4 ASP" selected.

Just below that, is "Configure" - open that, and under "Encoding Mode" - Select "2-Pass Average Bitrate". That will give a good conversion with the audio in sync.

With the 2-Pass mode, on the first Pass, Avidemux "maps" the video, including parts with most and least changes in detail and colour, and the line of audio. This data it saves to a text-file - and on the second Pass - uses the file as the "what's ahead" information for correct encoding. If 1-Pass mode is used - Avidemux can only "guess" from where it is in the encoding, as to what the next part might be...

In that Configure dialog-box leave Motion, Quantisation and Rate at "default" - as you learn Avidemux these can be good presets if you know how they change the process. The "defaults" work quite well with Average Bitrate.

2-Pass Average Bitrate will default to 1,000 kb/s - you can increase the bitrate to raise quality - but it takes quite large increases to achieve much "visible difference" - and that means large file-sizes.

Note that increasing the bitrate of low-resolution video can't improve it much if at all. A video frame is similar to a JPEG image for info storage. If a friend mails you a 640 x 480 JPEG - 'enlarging' it to 1600 x 1200, even with best interpolation, won't do it much good at all...

Increasing bitrate in video can't "invent and insert" information that isn't in the original.

Below "Configure" is "Filters" - open that. Ensure that "Lock Aspect Ratio" is ticked, and both Source and Destinaton say "1:1".

Under "Resize Dimensions" - just leave the "default" (current frame-size) - unless you actually want to re-frame-size the video.

Use the Slider or the Percentage Spinner to its right to change the size. I'm assuming that you want to down-size camera video. Trying to up-size - unless by a very small amount - seldom has desirable results.

If you are downsizing to send to friends to play on PC, or to put into a video editor - you needn't use the "Round to nearest multiple of 16" check-box - 'unless' your video editor demands "compliant AR" (aspect ratio.)

If so - or, if you are going to make a correctly compliant MPEG2 DVD fileset - you do need to have the width and height as multiples of 16 for most applications.

Example - to convert 1280 x 720 camera Std-HD to standard DVD at 16:9 Aspect Ratio - with "16 multiples" selected, the frame-size will be 720 x 400 (or 404 - can vary with source-files) - and you'd need to use the "Add Black Borders" top and bottom - for a DVD to play correctly on a std 4:3 AR TV.

(The black borders will be different for US std TV 720 x 480, and PAL 720 x 576.)

The X/Y error should be 0 and 0, at 16-multiples - for compliant format.

For widescreen TVs - some are 16:9 and some are other ARs - you'd need to allow for that - unless you have a high-end DVD player or TV that adjusts automatically. (Friends here have a late model Panasonic that does.)

Lanczos3 is the best interpolation mode in Avidemux, though a bit slower than Bicubic.

Xvid - use the Configure dialog, not the menu drop-down. In there, select "2-Pass Average Bitrate" - unless you need to control output filesize - say, to fit on a CD - it will then show a 'Target Video Size" - 700MB, 1 CD, which you can alter.

You can also use Target Size to resize a movie - 4.6GB, 5.4GB, etc, to fit on a DVD5 single-layer, if you don't have, or don't want to use, a DVD9. A DVD5 is 4.3GB - but resulting filesize can be a little bigger than set as Target.

To ensure your, say, 5.8GB movie will fit a DVD5 - Target for 4,000MB (that's a bit under 4GB, as there are 1,024MB to 1GB) - and get a result between 3.9 and 4.2GB.

Using 2-Pass Average Bitrate for Xvid, the default bitrate will be 1,500 - you can lower that if needed - but as Xvid4 is a bit more efficient than std MPEG4, the output at 1,500 won't be much larger - and will be better quality - than MPEG4 at 1,000 bitrate.

With Xvid you can use MP3 for audio.

Video Editors will usually alter inserted video's audio to suit the rendered output - say, to AC3 or PCM for DVDs, etc.

You can, however - do a "Save" of the original video's audio track, with Avidemux.

Make sure the video is in detected and playable mode in Avidemux.

On the bar - click Audio > Main Track - and the dialog box that appears, in the centre bar, offers "Track from Video". Some movies have more than one sound-track - maybe AC3 and MP3 - in your case, select the AC3, and click OK.

You can also save the audio from your camera videos - as "add-back later" in editing, or to use some "original" - passing train, maybe - and some add-in music.

I have also heard that "some kids" use Avid to "grab" the tracks out of material from a 'tubular' sounding source - but that might not be polite in some regions, so one can't at all suggest that anyone do such....

Regards, Dave.




  
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ITemplate
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Hatchling
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Jun 27, 2011 14:28 |  #11

Dave,

I works beautifully. I have created both large files for our PS3 (wife is pleased and her new camera is usable now) and small files for sending to family which they open without trouble. Excellent setup now. Thanks a bunch for your time and indepth explanations - really appreciated!

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Werner




  
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exwintech
Gone, but not forgotten . . .
551 posts
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Jun 27, 2011 18:39 as a reply to  @ ITemplate's post |  #12

Werner - Very happy here, if that helped...

It's a bit of an odd video version, the H264/MOV - my first camera with "HD" video was apparently, or so Fuji claimed - the first P&S with HD, the S2000HD, which did a 'claimed' compliant MPEG4 - but the camera files use the *.mp4 extension, as 1280 x 720. Sadly, its 640 x 480, also in MPEG4, is better quality than the "HD"....

Then came my SX10 - which has the 640 x 480 in H264/MOV - which for VGA is very good quality. That was my first experience of the H264/MOV - and it does a superb conversion to Xvid4 with Avidemux, and is easy to edit.

After that the Fuji HS10 - which does rather woeful 1920 x 1080 - and pretty good 1280 x 720, in H264/MOV. The latter converts well either for editing in KdenLive - or for making DVDs - I convert to *.mpeg(2) with Avidemux, then use DVD-Styler (there's a Windows version of that) - to assemble the clips and add titles - then it renders to a DVD fileset - or can also do a writable to DVD ISO.

Explore Avidemux a bit more - the Filters have a lot of useful functions if you look through them. There's a lot of info and tutorials at:

Ref: - w-w.avidemux.org/admWiki​/doku.php?id=start

Regards, Dave.




  
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ITemplate
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Jun 30, 2011 17:12 |  #13

Thanks again Dave. I'm also evaluating FFMPEG (using WinFF) along with some other software (Movavi and Xilisoft) - and it looks as if AVIDemux is going to be my choice.

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Werner




  
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exwintech
Gone, but not forgotten . . .
551 posts
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Jul 01, 2011 19:07 as a reply to  @ ITemplate's post |  #14

Werner - WinFF can be good for some things, while FFMPEG can be more direct. Those are cross-platform, though some things that use those and include them in Linux apps - KdenLive with FFMPEG for example - don't look like having Windows versions any time soon.

In the last few years the OpenSource applications, which had earlier been a bit awkward, or needed a lot of CLI work, have hugely improved their GUI interfaces and ease of use for PC-ers.

People complain because "Gimp isn't Photoshop" - but Gimp never will be the same sort of thing - Photoshop is a 'pixel-editor' - Gimp is a 'paint' program... If they want a pixel-editor in Linux, they can try the high-end ImageMajick...

OpenOffice will now do anything MS-Office will do - including (a bit rudely) - creating *.docx, etc, files my godson does at home - that run happily on the MS-Office equipped computers at his school. Just that OOo doesn't do the "office" things in the same DRM'd way as dear-old MS-Office... (I was an Office8-'97 / Office9-2000 fanatic for years...!)

Friends here (Sydney, Oz) - last year bought Vegas-Pro - about $600-something - to handle their camcorder DV and H264/MOV material... A few weeks later they arrived at my place as I was doing some 1280 x 720 video with KdenLive - which interested their teens... Could "Unky Dave's" weirdo Linux thingy have a video-editor as good as anything in Windows...?

An hour later, the parents were head-shaking and the kids almost "addicted" already to KdenLive... It turns out results as good as anything Vegas-Pro does - and the interface and sections are rather less 'clunky' to use - it's very user-friendly. Also - it has far more templates, add-ins, presets, transtions, effects, so on, free to download - and less O/S overheads.

That is, I can run it on one Desktop, rendering to file, while doing downloads on say 2 other Desktops, OOo open with in-progress on another, and a Forum on the 6th, and still leave Desktop1 clear for anything urgent.

And no - this isn't a high-end PC - it's about 3+ years old, early SATA board - AMD-6000 3GHz dualcore and 2GB DDR2.. (Linux itself has rather low overheads.)

Every so often there's a "hint" that there'll be a Windows version of KdenLive - and then it fades away... But it needs the functions and libraries of KDE (the K Desktop Environment - Linux has numerous Desktop Enviros - KDE is probably the most popular for home PCs, and Gnome for business) - as it's part of that Enviro - and those things are awkward to port to another O/S...

So the friends now have PCLOS (PCLinuxOS) - on their "second" family PC, dual-booted wth XP-Pro-SP3 - but the only things they use the Linux boot side for are KdenLive and when they want fast Internet downloads.... (I've set it up so that XP and Linux can both use a 60GB "Transit" partition converted to FAT32.)

Regards, Dave.




  
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Urgent: Can't play new Ixus300 MOV files
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