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Thread started 27 Jun 2011 (Monday) 21:47
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Settings for rodeo event?

 
aussiedee
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Jun 27, 2011 21:47 |  #1

I've been given tickets to a rodeo but I'm not sure if it's a big arena, outdoors, indoors or whatnot. Waiting for directions to get there.

I only just bought my camera last week with a kit lens of 18-200. I have no flash except for the built in one. And assuming I can't use the flash anyway... (scare horses)....
Could I possibly get a setup for indoor shooting, outdoor shooting and outdoor/overcast shooting? Like should I just use the auto setting w/out flash, sports setting? or should I use the manual settings? If manual, what would be the f-stop? or the shutter speed? or a combination?

I work for a newspaper and created the advertising for the upcoming rodeo and they may possibly use some rodeo shots for the paper if I get some good ones. Credited of course and good for my design portfolio.

Never shot action... so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ok editing to add... it's outside, no roof.... live in Queensland Australia and the weather has been gorgeous here... winter weather means 80 degrees (F) and dry... :D


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amfoto1
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Jun 27, 2011 23:03 |  #2

1. You should be able to look up the rodeo online and find info about the location. It's very important to know if it's a covered or enclosed arena or not. If it's covered, chances are that you'll have a tough time shooting anything with a kit lens. Really dark arenas it's hard to get much even with f2.8 lenses.

Outdoors under an overcast sky is ideal lighting. If it's sunny, you'll have heavy shadows and most rodeo competitors wear wide brimmed hats... A fill flash is one recourse. But you'll need a fairly powerful one such as a 430EX or 580EX. The built in flash is no where near powerful enough and it's in the worst possible place for causing nasty eyeshine, anyway.

Heavy Photoshop post-processing is an alternative to flash, or might be needed in addition to flash. Be very careful not to under-expose and shoot RAW in order to have the most flexibility working with the images after the fact.

If indoors or covered, they might use rather nasty sodium vapor or mecury vapor lamps. If it's the primary light source, set a custom color balance or you'll have a difficult time adjusting it later in post processing.

You also might find a mix of light types... indirect sunlight from the sides, skylights which are usually yellowed with age and dirt, and sodium/mercury vapor. That's a really tough situation and takes some extensive post production work... or convert your images to black and white. I usually ask venues to turn off sodium/mercury vapor lamps when there's a mix with indirect daylight. Most cooperate.

2. Flash doesn't scare horses unless you're really close and it goes off right in their face or they can hear it "pop" and recycling. Otherwise, it's just like lightning or reflection off a car window or water, and they tend to ignore it. Particularly if you are using fill flash, as opposed to full flash. Young or "green" inexperienced horses I watch out using flash, they might react to it. Try setting off the flash from a reasonable distance, with it pointed toward the ground and watch for their reaction. If they seem nervous, don't use it. But most will completely ignore it so long as you are at a reasonable difference.

The best way to avoid eyeshine is to get the flash off-camera, on a bracket to the side and well above, away from the lens axis. Eyeshine is worse indoors, when animals' eyes are dilated in low light, than it is outdoors in strong sunlight.

In a competitive situation you might not be allowed to use flash. At a rodeo it's probably not a problem, but you should check with the organizer and venue to be sure.

3. There is absolutely no way I'd give my shots away to a newspaper. They can pay for any shots they want to use. It's horrible precedent to start giving your shots away to them. Photo credit is worth absolutely nothing. You can use the shots in your design portfolio whether the newspaper publishes them or not. Find out what they pay their stringers or spend on stock photos, then dont settle for anything less.

4. If the newspaper "hires you" for the rodeo (or any other assignment), be very very careful. Chances are they will end up owning your photos, you'll be giving up the copyright and they will have the right to sell the images to other newspapers and publications via the wire services. Not a good thing! If you're job description at the newspaper doesn't mention anything about taking photographs, that's good and you should negotiate separately for any usages... But if your job description mentions it, any shots you take they can end up owning and you should get something in writing spelling out that your shots taken outside the work are your own. A friend of mine worked for AP as a staff photographer for ten years... He still occasionally sees his shots in stock libraries... They are still selling them. He doesn't own any of them and has to ask permission to use his own shots in his portfolio!

Edit... okay, it's outdoors... Good. Now you have a choice of working the light or adding your own, if it's sunny. Or a little of both. By working the light, I mean moving around so that the sun is at your back. Of course, midday that's impossible and when you'll most likely need fill flash. Pray for high overcast... that's the best lighting.

Keep your shutter speeds up... It takes 1/500 or faster shutter speeds to freeze a galloping horse. Even faster would be better. You might get blurred hooves at 1/640 or slower. Of course, you can do some interesting panning shots and deliberately include motion blur, too. You'll throw away a lot of those, but when they work panned shots can be pretty cool. Experiment a little with slower shutter speeds and panning.

Try to work from right beside the arena, if possible. It's neat to shoot from down low, but you have to be careful about startling horses. They might think you are hiding and getting ready to jump out. It's best to be in plain site, so that they can see and easily recognize you as a human being. Some horses get nervous when you point a camera at them, but not so much if you are a reasonable distance away.

Use just the center AF point and set your camera to AI Servo, to track moving subjects. I suggest thinking about using Back Button Focusing (external link), too. It's a good technique to learn, with any kind of action photography. Practice tracking moving subjects with the center AF point, just to get the feel for it... maybe cars on the street or something like that.

You should have no problem using ISO 1600 on your camera, if needed. Outdoors in sunlight you can probably use a lot lower... maybe ISO 400. Use the exposure method of your choice. I use M if the lighting is steady. That makes for a lot less adjusting and correcting after the fact. But if you are used to shooting in manual mode, then the auto modes of Av, Tv or even P can be used... just watch that your shutter speeds don't get too slow.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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aussiedee
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Jun 27, 2011 23:31 |  #3

3. There is absolutely no way I'd give my shots away to a newspaper. They can pay for any shots they want to use. It's horrible precedent to start giving your shots away to them. Photo credit is worth absolutely nothing. You can use the shots in your design portfolio whether the newspaper publishes them or not. Find out what they pay their stringers or spend on stock photos, then dont settle for anything less.

4. If the newspaper "hires you" for the rodeo (or any other assignment), be very very careful.

I work for the newspaper.... I'm paid salary, plus I'm an amateur and I'm most certain they'll have freelancers covering it too. It's just an ego boost for me, being credited, that is....

Anyway, yes, it's outdoors, no roof.... I found the website and saw an over view of the arena. I'll have to get there early then and scope the place out. See where the sun will be hitting most the day, either directly overhead or off to the side or something.

Thanks for the information. I'm looking to get an external flash, so I'll price around.


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aussiedee
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Jun 27, 2011 23:34 |  #4

P.S. What about shutter speeds and f-stops? I'll most likely want auto-continuous focus as well correct?

Maybe I'll just let my chihuahua run around in the back yard and practice on her! LOL!!! She's like a mini border collie! HYPER!!


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amfoto1
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Jun 28, 2011 00:25 |  #5

aussiedee wrote in post #12668916 (external link)
P.S. What about shutter speeds and f-stops? I'll most likely want auto-continuous focus as well correct?

Maybe I'll just let my chihuahua run around in the back yard and practice on her! LOL!!! She's like a mini border collie! HYPER!!

"auto-continuous focus" is AI Servo... Just don't let the camera pick the point of focus, it will too often pick the wrong point. That's why I suggested selecting only the center point (which is also the most sensitive and fastest AF point).

If you can track a chihuahua, you can track a horse and rider... good practice.

I added some info on shutter speeds and f-stops above. Try to use f5.6, maybe. I don't know what your lens can do. But that's probably safe. Then just pick an ISO that will give you high enough shutter speed... maybe 1/1000 to be safest.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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Craign
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Jun 28, 2011 00:39 |  #6

Use AI Servo and high-speed shooting in short burst. The rest here is a guess.

I like to use fast shutter speeds for action, 1/1000 sec. or higher, 1/500 would probably be okay. Don't get cute and use a slow shutter speed to blur part of the scene to indicate action. Some people like to set the shutter speed and let the camera select the f-stop. I would rather select the f-stop to control depth of field and let the camera select the shutter speed. My ISO setting is set high enough to allow an acceptable shutter speed.

Try starting in AV mode at f/5.6 to f/8.0 and see what ISO setting will give a shutter speed of 1/1000 or higher. I am not familiar with the 600D and do not know how it handles noise but you should have no problem with ISO 800 if needed.

You might need to use +1/3 or +2/3 EV if the subjects are looking underexposed. This can happen when shooting in bright sun and the camera automatically selects a setting that leaves an important part of the photo too dark. Experienced photographers might use full manual under such conditions. I hesitate to use full manual outside because conditions (clouds) can suddenly change the light at the worst possible time.

I hope the above comments don't seem crazy to you.

Forget the built-in flash. It is too weak to be effective. Practice on anything that moves - pets, cars, anything. If all else fails use the sports setting. That is not the worst thing that can happen. You might want to practice using the sports setting and compare the results with your settings.

In case you missed it: Practice on anything that is moving!


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aussiedee
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Jun 28, 2011 01:29 |  #7

Craign wrote in post #12669151 (external link)
Use AI Servo and high-speed shooting in short burst. The rest here is a guess.

I like to use fast shutter speeds for action, 1/1000 sec. or higher, 1/500 would probably be okay. Don't get cute and use a slow shutter speed to blur part of the scene to indicate action. Some people like to set the shutter speed and let the camera select the f-stop. I would rather select the f-stop to control depth of field and let the camera select the shutter speed. My ISO setting is set high enough to allow an acceptable shutter speed.

Try starting in AV mode at f/5.6 to f/8.0 and see what ISO setting will give a shutter speed of 1/1000 or higher. I am not familiar with the 600D and do not know how it handles noise but you should have no problem with ISO 800 if needed.

You might need to use +1/3 or +2/3 EV if the subjects are looking underexposed. This can happen when shooting in bright sun and the camera automatically selects a setting that leaves an important part of the photo too dark. Experienced photographers might use full manual under such conditions. I hesitate to use full manual outside because conditions (clouds) can suddenly change the light at the worst possible time.

I hope the above comments don't seem crazy to you.

Forget the built-in flash. It is too weak to be effective. Practice on anything that moves - pets, cars, anything. If all else fails use the sports setting. That is not the worst thing that can happen. You might want to practice using the sports setting and compare the results with your settings.

In case you missed it: Practice on anything that is moving!

Awesome thanks for those tips.... gonna jot down some notes to take with me because I know i'll forget everything I've just read. :confused:


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FlyingPhotog
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Jun 28, 2011 01:35 |  #8

Just remember that the +1/3 EV or +1/2 EV has to come from somewhere so you're either going to lose that much shutter speed or need to find that much more aperture (which you probably won't have if you're indoors and already wide open.) You don't magically gain more exposure out of the either (unless you do it by bumping your ISO by 1/3 or 1/2 but added gain can mean added noise.)


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Craign
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Jun 29, 2011 00:36 |  #9

I checked the EXIF information from some mid-afternoon action shots. I was at ISO 800 f/6.3 and SS 1/1250 sec Nov. 6, 2010 for horse races.
Same settings on June 12, 2011 and the SS was 1/2500 at a swimming pool.

That is the difference between summer and winter here. You should have no problem obtaining 1/1000 sec in Queensland. You really do need a high shutter speed or the horse's hoofs and head will show motion blur. They often move much faster the the horse's body. Same goes for rider's hands, feet, etc.


Canon 7D Mark II w/Canon BG-E16 Battery Grip; Canon EOS 50D w/Canon Battery Grip; Canon SL1; Tokina 12mm - 24mm f/4 PRO DX II; Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS; Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS; Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS; Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM; Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS; Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM; Canon Extender EF 1.4x II; Canon Extender EF 2x II; Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash
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aussiedee
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Jun 29, 2011 05:44 |  #10

Craign wrote in post #12675232 (external link)
I checked the EXIF information from some mid-afternoon action shots. I was at ISO 800 f/6.3 and SS 1/1250 sec Nov. 6, 2010 for horse races.
Same settings on June 12, 2011 and the SS was 1/2500 at a swimming pool.

That is the difference between summer and winter here. You should have no problem obtaining 1/1000 sec in Queensland. You really do need a high shutter speed or the horse's hoofs and head will show motion blur. They often move much faster the the horse's body. Same goes for rider's hands, feet, etc.

Thanks for that, well noted and will try some practice shots of my dog.... Hoping to get some good shots :)


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Mark-B
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Jun 29, 2011 20:29 |  #11

I've only been to one rodeo, and it was an indoor event. I thought the view was better from a little farther back, so I shot the event with a Canon 100mm f/2 lens. Almost all of the shots were at ISO 1600, f/2, and around 1/500 shutter speed.

http://www.msbphoto.co​m/bullride (external link)


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