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Thread started 28 Jun 2011 (Tuesday) 20:58
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PSE9 vs DPP Raw Color/Light Differences

 
dpopeney
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Jun 28, 2011 20:58 |  #1

First, I apologize if this is a repeated question. I've tried reading past posts, but most pertain to the full blown Photoshop and i think i've just gotten more confused. I'm pretty new to PSE9 and post processing of RAW files, so i really appreciate the help!

I was starting to convert my RAW images in PSE9 (Camera Raw) and noticed the colors and light looked a lot different than what i saw when viewing in DPP. I have a 60D and the color mode is set up in sRBG. My DPP color settings are all set to sRBG. In PSE9 my color option is set to "Always Optmize Colors for Computer Screens" (which i think is sRBG).

Attached below are some screen shots from DPP (1st image) and PSE9/Camera Raw (2nd image). To me, the PSE9 image looks a lot worse than the DPP image. I have planned on doing all my editing/conversion with PSE9 since i'm more familiar with it and i have a book to help me along the way. is there any way or settings to get the PSE9 colors and lighting to look more like the DPP image so i dont have to do a ton of PP in PSE9?

Is there anything i'm missing? Any more info that i can provide to help diagnose the problem?

thanks!!


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Rimmer
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Jun 28, 2011 21:31 |  #2

I'm on my GNU/Linux machine right now so can't refer to my copy of PSE9; hope I describe this correctly...

In Adobe Camera Raw, click on the third tab (I think it has a camera icon?) and try different settings among Adobe Standard, Camera Standard, Camera Faithful, etc.

When I first used PSE9/ACR with my G11 I was very disappointed in the results until I discovered that setting and changed from Adobe Standard (which appears to be the default) to Camera Standard. I have since found situations where other settings look good (even Adobe Standard at times), but for me Camera Standard most often gives the best results.


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tonylong
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Jun 29, 2011 04:15 |  #3

You have to understand that Raw processors each apply their own basic rendering to produce a preview, a "starting point" of your Raw data rendered into an image, and these renderings will be different from one processor to another. It's not a matter of being better or worse, but merely of differences in how variable curves and such are applied to the Raw data. This is normal -- when you are doing Raw processing it is up to you to decide what the final output should be.

You should also be aware that Digital Photo Professional (DPP) has a "leg up" for those beginning in Raw processing, and you are observing this here: DPP takes your in-camera settings such as your Picture Style and uses them to render your initial Raw preview and so your default settings for converting a Raw file to a jpeg.

Since our cameras by default use the Standard Picture Style, in DPP there is a curve applied that give a bit of a boost to Contrast and Saturation and that is what you are seeing in the above photos, whereas Lightroom tends by default to not give as much of a boost in these things. If you want to get a "real" comparison, either tweak the Lightroom Calibration profile a bit or set the DPP Picture Style to Neutral or Faithful.

Take some time to play between the two. In Lightroom you can find settings you are happy with and use them to create Presets to do whatever you want. Just be aware that the default settings will not match DPP.


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frenchconnector
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Jun 29, 2011 04:58 |  #4

This looks like different white balance is used. See what DPP uses and set the same white balance in Camera Raw. If they are both on auto, adjust Camera Raw WB manually to get more magenta and yellow hue.


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tzalman
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Jun 29, 2011 05:22 |  #5

http://www.lightroomfo​rums.net …hy-did-Lr-ruin-my-picture (external link)

Applies equally to PSE/ACR.


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Rimmer
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Jun 29, 2011 07:10 |  #6

Another consideration with PSE9/ACR -- you don't have to start from "zero" each time. Experiment to find settings that you like then go to the right of the bar that says "Basic" (or "Detail" or "Camera Calibration" depending on the tab selected) and find the tiny little menu symbol. Click on that and save your new settings as the default.


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dpopeney
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Jun 29, 2011 14:01 |  #7

Thank you all for the replies!! this is a lot of info to digest and i'll need to re-read this and sit in front of both software programs and play with them some more. I'm almost wondering if i should be doing all my RAW/exposure editing in DPP then export to JPG and use PSE9 for the touch up...(DPP still intimidates me since i have no clue what I'm doing in that software!)

Rimmer wrote in post #12674425 (external link)
I'm on my GNU/Linux machine right now so can't refer to my copy of PSE9; hope I describe this correctly...

In Adobe Camera Raw, click on the third tab (I think it has a camera icon?) and try different settings among Adobe Standard, Camera Standard, Camera Faithful, etc.

When I first used PSE9/ACR with my G11 I was very disappointed in the results until I discovered that setting and changed from Adobe Standard (which appears to be the default) to Camera Standard. I have since found situations where other settings look good (even Adobe Standard at times), but for me Camera Standard most often gives the best results.

I did play with that 3 tab a bit, and the screen capture above is Camera Landscape not the basic Adobe Standard, which is the scence setting i used to capture the shot on the camera. It did help the colors a little bit changing to Camera Landscape, but obviously not the same image.

tonylong wrote in post #12675711 (external link)
You have to understand that Raw processors each apply their own basic rendering to produce a preview, a "starting point" of your Raw data rendered into an image, and these renderings will be different from one processor to another. It's not a matter of being better or worse, but merely of differences in how variable curves and such are applied to the Raw data. This is normal -- when you are doing Raw processing it is up to you to decide what the final output should be.

You should also be aware that Digital Photo Professional (DPP) has a "leg up" for those beginning in Raw processing, and you are observing this here: DPP takes your in-camera settings such as your Picture Style and uses them to render your initial Raw preview and so your default settings for converting a Raw file to a jpeg.

Since our cameras by default use the Standard Picture Style, in DPP there is a curve applied that give a bit of a boost to Contrast and Saturation and that is what you are seeing in the above photos, whereas Lightroom tends by default to not give as much of a boost in these things. If you want to get a "real" comparison, either tweak the Lightroom Calibration profile a bit or set the DPP Picture Style to Neutral or Faithful.

Take some time to play between the two. In Lightroom you can find settings you are happy with and use them to create Presets to do whatever you want. Just be aware that the default settings will not match DPP.

Thanks for the explination, this definately helps clear up my confusion. although i'm using Photoshop Elements 9, not LR. Do you know if there are settings within Elements that I could set up Presets??

frenchconnector wrote in post #12675806 (external link)
This looks like different white balance is used. See what DPP uses and set the same white balance in Camera Raw. If they are both on auto, adjust Camera Raw WB manually to get more magenta and yellow hue.

Thanks for the Tip on WB, i'll have to see if that makes a difference!




  
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dpopeney
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Jun 29, 2011 14:02 |  #8

Rimmer wrote in post #12676100 (external link)
Another consideration with PSE9/ACR -- you don't have to start from "zero" each time. Experiment to find settings that you like then go to the right of the bar that says "Basic" (or "Detail" or "Camera Calibration" depending on the tab selected) and find the tiny little menu symbol. Click on that and save your new settings as the default.

I guess I've never seen this option in the Camera Raw window. I'll have to check this out when i get home. thanks for the tip!




  
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Rimmer
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Jun 29, 2011 16:04 |  #9

dpopeney wrote in post #12678085 (external link)
I guess I've never seen this option in the Camera Raw window. I'll have to check this out when i get home. thanks for the tip!

Don't blame yourself! ;) It is tiny, and hidden way over at the edge. As you noted, PSE/ACR doesn't have presets as such but creating a new default with settings that work for you will probably accomplish much the same thing.


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René ­ Damkot
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Jun 29, 2011 16:32 |  #10

dpopeney wrote in post #12678078 (external link)
I'm almost wondering if i should be doing all my RAW/exposure editing in DPP then export to JPG and use PSE9 for the touch up...

If you prefer the DPP rendering, then that is the easiest option. I'd save to a 16bpc tif though if you want to do big luminance / color corrections in PSE.


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dpopeney
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Jun 29, 2011 16:43 |  #11

Rimmer wrote in post #12678800 (external link)
Don't blame yourself! ;) It is tiny, and hidden way over at the edge. As you noted, PSE/ACR doesn't have presets as such but creating a new default with settings that work for you will probably accomplish much the same thing.

you've got to be kidding! that is a button!! good to know. thanks for taking the time to paste in that image, i dont think i would've ever seen that!




  
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dpopeney
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Jul 01, 2011 12:12 |  #12

So i got some time to play with both programs. As you guys have suggested the biggest difference was the 3rd tab in ACR and setting to the scence that the image was taken in rather than the Adobe Defaut (In my case it was Landscape). Then i needed to play with the other sliders on the 1st tab to get the images closer. Once i did this i saved those as defaults. There are still some subttle differences in color and sharpness, so now i'm wondering if its worth the hassle of working in ACR. I'm thinking at this point it might be best to adjust color/eposure/etc in DPP and export the jpg to PSE9.

Can anyone recommned any good tutorials for DPP or and good nominal settings for some of the sliders in DPP? Or is using DPP really just a trial and error kind of thing? I've been really intimidated using DPP since i really have no clue what I'm doing with it

Thanks again for your help!!




  
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Rimmer
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Jul 01, 2011 13:04 |  #13

Canon video tutorials for DPP:

http://www.learn.usa.c​anon.com …rials/dpp_tutor​ials.shtml (external link)

After much experimentation I personally found it to be much more efficient to use a single program, and so settled on using PSE9/ACR instead of a combination of DPP and PSE9. Again, that's just a personal preference.

If you do go the DPP > PSE route, convert and save as a TIFF, not a JPG, to avoid the lossy compression of the JPG format. In that case you have two options, save from DPP as 8-bit or 16-bit TIFF. PSE can only do certain global adjustments to 16-bit, so you may have to convert to 8-bit at some point (Image > Mode > 8 bits/channel). One book that I have recommends starting in 16-bit, doing global adjustments, then converting to 8-bit for local selections and adjustments. Another book recommends going straight to 8-bit and making maximum use of adjustment layers (which are not usable in 16-bit) for maximum "undoability."


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PSE9 vs DPP Raw Color/Light Differences
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