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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 02 Jul 2011 (Saturday) 16:21
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New computer ... PSE9 vs LR

 
wilerty
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Jul 02, 2011 16:21 |  #1

My laptop is going to a friend's son who is going to college and I will be able to use my office laptop for traveling. I'm getting a desktop for home with an I5, 8GB, 1TB, and separate video card. I've used my 3 installations of PSE9 so I have to buy new software anyway, and was thinking of upgrading to Lightroom 3 for the couple hundred more.

Everyone seems to rave about it ... but is it more complicated to learn and use, or is it an easy transition from PSE9?

I am not a professional photographer nor an expert with PSE9, but I seem to enjoy the post processing as much as the picture taking. Should I go for it???


Bill

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GregoryF
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Jul 02, 2011 19:51 |  #2

Love lightroom. It is somewhat easy to learn. There is a wealth of tutorials on the internet. I will occasionly use elements for layer manipulation, but other than that I do everything in Lightroom!


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WesternGuy
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Jul 02, 2011 21:01 |  #3

wilerty wrote in post #12694505 (external link)
...

I am not a professional photographer nor an expert with PSE9, but I seem to enjoy the post processing as much as the picture taking. Should I go for it???

I would go for it. I moved from Elements 8 to Lightroom 3 about a year ago and have absolutely no regrets. I also enjoy the post-processing almost as much as the picture taking...yes, there is a learning curve, but what new software is without one. Since you have already worked with Elements, the learning curve won't be as bad as say, if you went to CS5. There are lots of sites on the web with info on Lightroom...there is one here: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=929170

The one thing I really like about LR is the Library module and its keywording capabilities (I'll comment on this later). The Develop module has the ability to "ripple" edits through a number of images that were taken under similar situations, for example, suppose you wanted to adjust the white balance on a number of images that you took of your kids playing in the park, you can set the white balance for one image and then sync all the others to it in one or two simple moves.

If you do this - move to LR, then I would suggest that you buy Kelby's book on Lightroom 3, download the images that are available to download for this book (they are not all available), then work through the book with the images that you did download. I did this and it took me a few days, maybe 6 to 8 hours altogether, and it really helped flatten out and shorten the learning curve, at least I think it did...

The other thing I really like about LR is its use of presets. If you are not familiar with them, these are a way of gathering together a set of "processing instructions" that can be applied over and over to an image or images, for example, if you use a set of "sharpening" settings on certain types of images, then you can define a preset that will do this when the preset is applied to the image, that way you don't have to remember exactly what the setting was...LR comes with a bunch of these already setup and you can make your own, or you can find freebies and ones available for purchase on the web. Kelby's book tells you all about these.

Keywords, one thing I learned, is to have a good idea of some sort of definitive approach to applying keywords to your images, because it is possible to apply keywords to images when you import them from your memory card into LR. For example, I went to Africa a few months ago and when I returned, I was able to assign the keyword "Africa" to all my photos as they were imported. After importing, I was able to assign keywords to groups of my images, depending on where they were taken and then broke them down further into subject, etc...so now I have an approach to keywording which starts with continent, country, state/province/county or other location within the country, local location, e.g., city, town, park, etc., main subject, and other modifiers as appropriate.

One thing though, if you have not already done this, you will need to have some way of calibrating your monitor. With that final thought, I hope this helps a bit and good luck...any additional questions, post back and I am sure you will find some answers from folks here.

Cheers,

WesternGuy




  
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MT ­ Stringer
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Jul 02, 2011 21:06 |  #4

Personally, I use both LR and PSE 8. I use LR for everyday stuff like tweaking my sports photos (by the thousands sometimes), cropping, exposure, noise reduction (works really well). But, when I work on custom posters or resize, and edit photos for posting online, I use Elements.


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tonylong
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Jul 03, 2011 05:32 |  #5

You should realize that Lightroom is not a replacement for Elements. Lightroom offers an upgrade to the functionality of the Elements Raw processor and Organizer, with a very effecitve user interface to cover most of what photographers need to do, but it has no "pixel editor" like Elements has.

So, if you do get Lightroom (only after checking out the free trial and some tutorials) you still want to keep and learn to use Elements for all it has to offer -- there will be times when you will really want to know how to use it!


Tony
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Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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wilerty
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Jul 03, 2011 15:24 |  #6

Thanks everyone ... I was thinking Lightroom was a replacement for PSE9. I see it isn't.


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Mac ­ Mahon
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Jul 03, 2011 16:16 |  #7

wilerty wrote in post #12698575 (external link)
Thanks everyone ... I was thinking Lightroom was a replacement for PSE9. I see it isn't.

This is how I think about it

Lightroom is a tool to manage photo files from the camera to display to print. It does essentially three things that photographers need to do:

1 It enables you to catalog picture files, and provides powerful search and organisation of catalogs, so you can organise and quickly retrieve photos. This part of Lightroom is the concern of the 'Library' module.

2 It converts raw camera images into a viewable form, and provides tools for editing or adjustment of those images:

  • global and selective tone, hue, WB, contrast adjustments etc
  • highlight retrieval
  • sharpening and noise reduction, among other things
This part of the program is the concern of the 'Develop' module.

3 It enables various ways to output/display images: print, computer slideshow, or web. It has the most powerful and easy to use printing options and functionality I've experienced.

Lightroom does NOT enable you to manipulate images as a designer might: you cannot splice two images together to put Angelina's legs on Brad's torso, or work your company's logo into a picnic scene. If you need to do that, you need a tool like Photoshop or Photoshop Elements.
I think of Photoshop as a designer's tool, while ...
… Lightroom is (just about) the complete photographer's tool.

FWIW I have LR and PSE. I seldom have any need to use PSE unless I'm making Xmas cards and want to overlay text on a photo. (You can even do that in LR using the watermark facility)

Cheers

Tim



  
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tonylong
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Jul 03, 2011 18:16 |  #8

Here's an example from a bike outing I did yesterday to show what Lightroom can easily do and what it can't-- I caught a glimpse of the distant Mount Hood, OR through some trees across a big field and hike to the middle of the field where I took some shots. This mountain is about 50 miles away, so the photos came out very, very hazy! Lightroom did give me some very quick adjustments -- here is a photo shot at 200mm with my 70-200mm lens and after Lightroom tweaking it actually is something that doesn't feel painful to look at:

IMAGE: http://www.pbase.com/tonylong/image/136075287/original.jpg

Now, just to show you how effective Raw processing can be -- I shot this using the "Expose To The Right" technique of upping the exposure to just the point where I had no "highlight blinkies" warnings in the camera so I would have good room to adjust both highlights and shadows, a major strength with Raw processing. Lightroom/ACR or another Raw processor has the ability to "tame" an image that may seem out of control, so here is my Before Lightroom image:)!:

IMAGE: http://www.pbase.com/image/136095116/original.jpg

Believe it or not, the snow on that mountain is not actually blown -- in Lightroom I could lower the Exposure and no clipping showed up!

Now, granted, I did shoot a series at different exposures and I could have chosen a shot with a lower exposure, but sometimes it is nice to have different choices, and an ETTR shot in Raw just gives you more choices:)!

Anyway, that shows how much Lightroom can do well and quickly, but there are a couple things to note:

First of all is the urban "clutter" in the foreground -- the red/orange sign, the lampost, the fence posts -- all get in the way of this becoming a nice fine arts print...well, Lightroom does have a rudimentary cloning tool but compared to those that Elements/Photoshop have, well, trying to clone those things out in LR would be a lot of work and probably end in frustration. I use LR for all my dust spot removal when needed (and some of my shots from yesterday on my old 5DC did need some) but if I was serious about this photo I'd go to Photoshop for sure.

And then, note that the mountain is still hazy and because of that it has a bit of a bluish tinge.

Now, again if I got serious about this photo I'd have to explore my options. One would be a Lightroom local adjustment brush set to both desaturate the Blues and up the Contrast, Sharpening and whatever would help. In fact I played with that a bit this morning, just for fun, but decided that 1) it would take more than just the single brush I was using to get the Contrast maxxed out and maybe not even then without some fine detail burning with a tiny brush on those darker spots on the mountain, and 2) I just didn't want to take the time on this shot:)!

Elements has tools for this that are a bit more suited -- you can open adjustment layers with layer masks that you can pick and choose what to apply an adjustment to and those choices are visually "there" to check out and adjust as needed. That approach is what we have all "grown up" using. I have done some fairly effective stuff using Lightroom brushes but with Elements/Photoshop there are many tools to use that will help you fine-tune things that Lightroom lacks.

So, that's just a fun example of how if you have Elements and learn how to use it it will make you more effective in your work, alongside of the great power of processing your Raw files in Lightroom!

Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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MT ­ Stringer
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Jul 03, 2011 22:31 |  #9

Here are two examples of my sports stuff. Lightroom for the basic stuff, then Elements for the more advanced stuff.

1) Barbers Hill vs Montgomery (external link) - all images imported into Lightroom, exposure adjusted, clarity, sharpness and noise reduction if needed, cropped and backgrounds straightened if needed. Then exported.

2) Custom Poster created in PSE 8.0


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New computer ... PSE9 vs LR
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